Particularly when it comes to English. I would say many Scandinavians are fluent in English, yet far from being “perfect”.

Personally I would say “fluent” is when you can have an intelligent conversation with someone in that language, save maybe for some highly specialized areas where you may not have the needed vocabulary.

Honestly I think learning any foreign language to the level where a very skilled native speaker of that language wouldn’t notice the difference in my speech (and particularly in my writing) is in practice impossible for most people. There are simply too many nuances that must be taken into account.

I also think that no other language can truly reach the same level as our “emotion language”, our mother tongue.

Still with motivation and dedication you can definitely learn to speak most foreign languages reasonably well (fluent). And that is good enough for me.

Best of luck with your experiment
.-= Brian´s last blog ..A Few Simple Mind Map Examples =-.

Hope you’re enjoying Prague. I left my Czech class today feeling really discouraged but reading about your efforts here has really spurred me on!

GIC
.-= Girl In Czechland´s last blog ..Not Charles Bridge =-.

For those who asked for more info on conversational connectors, I have now added a few pages to my website.

That includes a list of about 100 connectors you can start practicing with (these are based on the spreadsheet I sent to Benny as mentioned in earlier comments).

Just click on SplogSplog above this post, and it will take you to my website. From there, it should all be pretty self-explanatory.

Cheers
Anthony

That’s how I approach learning languages… it’s my greatest hobby!

I learned Czech a few years ago and then visited Prague for less than a week. I practiced a bit there and went home. Then I learned more and just returned from a visit to Prague where I was able to practice quite a bit with friends.

I also like Spotblog’s deifnition (from his website):
“Fluency: being able to use the vocabulary you already have, in real conversations that flow naturally in a way that feels comfortable for everybody involved in the conversation”

In my case: I have studied Czech for some years in the US, with only penfriend contact with Czech people. I have only spoken Czech with friends in CR for less than 2 weeks time. However, when I was with my friends I was able to get my point across (fluent?) but at times I said “umm” but in a comfortable way (without stressing – maybe fluent?). And I was told that my Czech was good and pronunciation excellent (I think that I am fluent despite my handicap of “solo” learning in a non-Czech country). What d’ya think?

If you click on my name SplogSplog above this post it should take you to my new website.

For now, it only has a few introductory pages, with a bit of background and motivation. I have been working furiously today on content, and should be adding more pages every day or two over the next week.

There are definitely certain words and phrases which you can recycle again and again to give the impression of greater understanding of a language and therefore increase others’ interest in speaking with you. Beyond even just “conversational connectors” – though those are clearly more useful at the start.

One example, when learning French as a (lazy) student I got a lot of bang for my buck out of the expression “bouc émissaire” or “scape goat”. There are so many discussions, particularly about political issues where you can slip it in. I’d be interested to hear suggestions for other useful phrases in Czech!

don’t be upset, but – nezlobte se, ale

It is a much “lighter” form of apology than it sounds – essentially a deferential way of saying sorry – and it is very effective in shops and restaurants, in fact in any setting where you want to get friendly service.

For example, if you buy something in a shop that costs 5kc, but but you only have a 100kc note, you could say:

(Sorry, but) Nezlobte se, ale (I have) mám (unfortunately) bohužel (only) jenom (a 100kc note) stovku

You will probably get a smile, and the shop worker even apologising back to you how it isn’t a problem at all, and you shouldn’t worry about it …

Likewise, in a restaurant …

(Sorry, but) Nezlobte se, ale … (can you) můžete (to me) mi (to bring) přinést (a glass) sklenici (of water) vody (please) prosím

now it occurs to me that —— teď mi napadá, že
by the way ——— mimochodem
I have an interesting story about it ——— mám na tom zajímavý příběh
and besides that ———- a mimo to
oh, I nearly forgot ——— ach, málem jsem zapomněl
and one more thing ——– a ještě neco
on the other hand ——— zato

I particularly like knowing “and one more thing” since it will help me understand 20% of the dialogue of dubbed Columbo episodes

I started learning Spanish in February, now my passive understanding is up to intermeidate level – now I’m working on the active, verbal skills (I just started doing language exchange with a lovely Spanish girl. Boy, that helps! ).

And I’ve used some of your techniques, and found them very helpful! Thanks very much!

SplogSplog: could you pass me that spreadsheet too? I would appreciate that! Thank you!

Many lessons or books teach you to give factual responses (single works, or short sentences) but not how to establish rapport and keep a conversation going. When you learn the “tricks” of conversation (I have a spreadsheet of about 50 conversational “connectors” that I give to people) you can be fluent with the vocabulary you already have.

Here is an example: You are in a restaurant and somebody asks what you think of the meal, From a typical language learning experience, a student would often get flustered, find the experience unnerving, say “urm … good!” and hope they aren’t asked any more uncomfortable questions.

However, if they could use conversational connectors, they could say things like:

Thanks for asking. To tell the truth, I must say that the food is good. Let me ask you the same question: What do you think of your food?

The same conversational connectors can be recombined in all sorts of ways. Later on, then, the question “where are you from” could be replied to with: “To tell the truth, I am from England. Thanks for asking. Let me ask you: where are you from?”

Very little of each conversation is actually about the topic under discussion, but more about establishing intimacy and keeping the conversation going.

Also, the conversational connections become a deep part of you that you can say flawlessly without having to think about them – this gives you natural gaps (instead of “urm, urm, urm” in which to think up what you want to say next.

I cannot understand why this stuff is not taught early on in language lessons. People I have taught it to have said it “frees” their vocabulary so they don’t feel trapped when asked questions, and can talk much more fluently with just these 50 or so connectors and the current vocabulary.