difficulties with rosetta stone french | General discussion | Forum

Hi,

I don't know if you're still looking at this thread, but I think I can help.

First of all, I find your (OP's) post really enlightening because I'm using Rosetta Stone French (and am about at the point where you are) and I think it's extremely effective.  BUT, I know enough about French to know that there are two genders which affect word usage.  I think I tend to minimize the importance of having that tiny bit of knowledge in order to succeed with the program.  I've sometimes wondered how people who are truly complete and utter beginners with NO previous exposure to the language – or ANY foreign language – would do.

It sounds like you already knew about genders and are just being tripped up by the pictures… is that right?  In any case, your comments do highlight that perhaps RS is only effective for people who think a certain way.  I really, really disagree that in general "there's almost a complete reliance on memory, or a non describable internalization of the words." I describe it very clearly in my own head and arrive at the rule. So, I believe that perhaps your statement is true based on the way you think, but is not true based on the way I think. But your point is still important since it means that no matter how effective RS is for some people, it might not be for other people (at least without a lot of supplemental materials.)  I immediately knew il was "he" and "elle" was she, and then could link un and une to masculine and feminine words, and figure out that blanc is used when the object is masculine (for example, chat) and blanche is used when the object is feminine (voiture.)  You can tell from un or une, or le or la, whether the noun is masculine or feminine.   

As for sa, son, ses, ma, mon, mes, etc…. it's the same thing.  Generally, ma/mon/mes all mean "my." You say ma mère, because mère is feminine, and you say mon père because père is masculine.  You say mes when the object is plural, regardless of gender.  (I hope "object" is the correct grammatical term.)  So, you'd say "mes parents."

Sa, son, ses… it's different from English.  These words basically mean his and her, but unlike in English, the word choice isn't dependent on the actual gender of the subject… in English, if you're talking about a man's mother, you'd say, "his mother." But in French, the word choice is dependent on the gender of the object… mother (mère.)  Since this is a feminine word, you would say, "sa mère" even when you're talking about a man's mother.  Likewise, a woman's father would still be "son père." If you're talking about someone's parents (plural) you used ses… "ses parents."

(To further clarify… gender has nothing to do with actual gender even though mère happens to be a woman and père happens to be a man.  So, you'd also say, "son livre" to mean "her book," or "sa voiture" to mean "his car."  Don't get tripped up by the examples I used above.  This is what I know so far as the rule but it's possible that there are some exceptions in more complicated sentences.)

Votre and vos, ("your") and notre and nos ("our") is not dependent on gender, but whether the object is singular or plural.  (Votre voiture, vos voitures.)  Leur/leurs both mean "their," but again is dependent on whether the object is singular or plural.  (Leur enfant, leurs enfants.)

All this I picked up without getting it from a grammar… I think it's just down to how one's brain works… I was able to easily decipher the photos and make connections to English wording to figure out the rules.  And, understanding of what I'm learning isn't totally reliant on deciphering the photos… they inform but then you need to really think about the words and the meanings and their relation to one another.  For all RS's claims that the program will help you learn like a child, I don't think that's possible and that's a GOOD thing.  We already know grammar in at least one language and thinking about it and connecting what we see in RS to what we already know is very helpful and in my experience, anyway, unavoidable.

However, I did not find certain other things so easy.  In most cases I would mostly decipher a general rule, but I'd have to confirm in a grammar book.  (For instance, in many negative statements, le/la or un/une is replaced by de or d' (if the next word begins with a vowel.)  So for instance, you might say Il y a une carte dans le livre.  (There is a map in the book.)  But, you'd say Il n'y a pas de carte dans le livre.  (There is no map in the book.)

I think you'll be GREATLY helped by working through a simple grammar.  I do wish that Rosetta Stone would come with a book, but it doesn't.  I am using "Basic French," in the "Practice Makes Perfect" series, published by McGraw Hill.  It's written by Elaine Kurbegov.  I've found that while it doesn't completely parallel Rosetta Stone, it's close enough to be really helpful.  It should clarify a lot of points, and it's also fun and interesting rather than being dry.  You might also want something like French for Dummies to get the absolute basic information.

I hope this helps!

Liz

(I apologize if my use of the terms subject and object are off… I know what I'm talking about but honestly, I never had in-depth English grammar in school.  I've been through 20 years of full-time schooling and additional part-time courses, and yet I'm not always sure of how to describe grammar even though I understand the rules.  My last formal foreign language study was 16 years ago….)