Arabic: Round 2 (Goal: To achieve a 'conversational level' within 4 Months) | My language mission and my log | Forum
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00:02
July 15, 2011
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Some of you may have seen my previous attempt at learning Arabic/keeping a log here. Arabic beat me. Now I'm back for seconds :)
Last time, I was beaten by many excuses I could give here. Work had to be focused on other areas of my life etc. etc. Fact is, I stopped.
So, you may be interested in what the goal is :)
Goal
Well, I find I work better without a goal to work to. Without specific plans, targets, etc. If I keep working to targets all the time, then I just become goal-orientated, and I stop enjoying the activity, especcially if I fail to acheive those goals. Rather, I prefer to be activity-orientated .. doing it because I enjoy it, and not because I told myself and the forum I was going to :)
However, a long-term vision is always going to be in place, it's just not a concrete goal. Hence the title :P
How do I define 'conversational level'
I have some minimalistic tendencies (for clarification, meaning, I ignore all the rubbish I don't really need, and focus on the important things, in most areas of life), and this applies to my languages to. So, a minimalistic view at languages would be to do away with anything that doesn't really need to be done, and focus on achieving what is important to be done.
A bit of an aside here, but still relevant (eventually): Language is a matter of communication. As long as the other side understands what you intended to get across, language worked! Such as when a baby goes 'Mama, want bowul' – His grammar is incorrect, his prononciation of 'Bottle' is only incorrect, and his vocabulary is limited. However, the message got across. Now I don't intend to not learn grammar, or proper prononciation, or anything like that. This is just how I see making mistakes in my head. Or rather, my acceptance of making mistakes. I don't mind, in my first few days of speaking, to get things wrong, to speak like a baby, to speak slow or anything. Just like a baby does, I will add to my knowledge, and improve my constructions, prononciations etc. Feedback is my best friend here, so I will learn a lot quicker, and probably pass the baby stage within a day or two for most basic sentences.
Along this theme, that baby will grow into an adult, and it's English will be almost perfect. Almost. Then again, it may be less than perfect. I know plenty of people who's English skills suck, and basic learners of English surpass them. However, they are understood, and understand. They may have a limited vocabulary, but they survive, and they do not stop learning English because they come across words they don't know. Noone can physically know every single word in a (normal) language. English has over 1 million words! I come across a word I don't know every couple of days. Now here is the key. When I don't understand it, I ask what it means. Simple. However, I don't see this tactic employed by language learners extensively.
So, here is my definition (finally ;)) of 'conversational level':
- A good core knowledge of words and sentence construction (grammar etc.) found in every day life (No need for the Past historic passive subjunctive accusative voicemoodtense if it's only found in old books :D)
- The ability to ask what a word/sentence means and understand the explanation
Learning (conversational):
Learning (beginner):
00:29
October 23, 2011
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Ahlan!
I'm in the Arabic boat as well, on the Egyptian dialect side.
I wish you all the best!
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Learning: 
German 
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Egyptian Arabic
http://flaviotravelblog.blogspot.com - How to travel with a 5kg backpack!
02:59
November 27, 2011
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بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
Good luck on your mission!
If you need any questions, I can help with fusha and also spoken dialects (Egyptian is not my specialty, but I can understand it well).
بالنجاح
Learning: 
00:30
July 15, 2011
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Update Number 1
Yesterday, I had a look through my Teach Yourself book, and read the first chapter on the different/challenging but interesting way of saying hello :) For example, to say hello, you say ''Peace be upon you'' … the reply to ''How are you'' is always (in theory), good or bad ''Praise be to God'', although those I've spoken to havn't said that.
Although I put them into an SRS programme (I still havn't learnt them though), I learnt them by using them with the various Arabs I have met online :)
I spoke (wrote) with an Arabic speaker last night for the first time in Arabic (using the alphabet), a grand total of 5 minutes after cracking it open and having the first good look at it in 6 months (and even then I had hardly looked at it) :) Benny would be proud ;) I managed to piece together the sentence ''I am happy to hear that you are okay'' in order to push my boundaries, and I didnt get a wierd reply :L there were a few things that needed changing, but it got the message across :D That'll be the theme of this, saying (maybe wierd but) comfort-zone pushing things in order to better myself :P
Arabic is an incredibly interesting language, for example, many adjectives appear in the form (x)a(y)ee(z) like jadeed (new), kabeer (big), sagheer (small), jameel (beautiful). Also, those xyz form the root of that word, so it is likely that anything with that particular root is similarly linked. Such as KTB being about writing:
Kataab (book)
Kutuub (books)
Kataba (to write)
maktub (it was written)
maktaba (library)
This amazing feature enables you to link many many words that are unrelated in English and is certainly a great learning tool :D
I also had a few interesting chats ABOUT arabic today with various people, including Gaius above, who explained nicely the arabic verb system to me :)
I better go now so I can have my first voice chat with my extremely limited Arabic, but I'll make it work :)
Thanks for reading,
Shaun
Learning (conversational):
Learning (beginner):
01:08
October 23, 2011
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great job Seán!!! Keep it going man, never ever give up!
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http://flaviotravelblog.blogspot.com - How to travel with a 5kg backpack!
20:36
November 27, 2011
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ShaunMcBride said:
Arabic is an incredibly interesting language, for example, many adjectives appear in the form (x)a(y)ee(z) like jadeed (new), kabeer (big), sagheer (small), jameel (beautiful). Also, those xyz form the root of that word, so it is likely that anything with that particular root is similarly linked. Such as KTB being about writing:
Kataab (book)
Kutuub (books)
Kataba (to write)
maktub (it was written)
maktaba (library)This amazing feature enables you to link many many words that are unrelated in English and is certainly a great learning tool :D
Yeah this is a great feature of Semitic languages (:
You can take this another step forward – the "mold" themselves, into which the root of the word is "poured" , also have meanings.
For example: "maktab" (office) is derived from "ktb" + the mold "maf3al" (3 = ع). The mold "maf3al" + the root ktb, has the meaning of "a place where ktb takes places". More examples:
Ta3ama – tasted. Mat3am – restaurant.
3amala – worked. Ma3mal – factory.
Rakaza – focused. Markaz – center.
And many more (: Hebrew and Arabic are filled with these kind of similarities.
Learning:
04:39
July 10, 2011
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I'm an intermediate Levantine Arabic speaker. I'm interested to watch your progress and wish you success! Enjoy!
23:09
July 15, 2011
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Cheers for the help and encouragement guys :)
This one's not really an update, as I don't usually do much the weekends, its more my social time. I also couldn't study last night. So this is the first chance I've had to get on here :)
The other night, I just spoke to a few more people, I did my first Arabic voicechat :P I also completed a little bit of Michel Thomas and Teach Yourself Arabic, the two resources I'm using at the moment.
My plan is at the moment, not to have to much of a plan. I do have a vision of how I believe I'm going to get places, but it is less rigid than a plan, and just exists as a will, and a path. This goes back to what I said in the original post about how I would prefer to learn by enjoying Arabic, not seeing it as a chose, chasing an end goal :D
I'm going to work my way through Teach Yourself Arabic, that claims to be able to take you to a good level of Arabic (A-level/B2), learning the words I believe would be useful in Arabic (al kalam a-nafi' bi-arabeeya 
). I won't be doing the exercises as a) Im too stingy to buy the CD and b) they've never really helped me in previous language learning. I find that the practise will come enough with practising every day :) So mainly just becoming aware of and internalizing the grammar, and learning the words through Pauker SRS :P
At the same time I'll be learning colloquial Arabic from Michel Thomas, which will just help me generally in everything :) I'll most likely do all the courses, unless I get to a point in my Arabic where I have overtaken those courses :P
After that, I believe I will have enough grounding to be able to learn through my own means – talking to people, reading articles, listening to podcasts etc.
Any other good resources would be appreciated :D
Shukran, we ma'salama
Shaun
Learning (conversational):
Learning (beginner):
01:53
July 15, 2011
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السلام عاليكم
انا سيكتب قلياا بالعربيا هنا عندما انا قدير
(Hello, I will write a little here in Arabic when I can)
I feel a ''Why Arabic is easy'' post coming on soon because Arabic gets easier and easier the more you delve into it :D The root system is just proving to be a saviour in what could otherwise be a dark expanse. Thanks to Gaius Julius (above), I have started understanding verbs and the different ways of forming it, allowing my Arabic to expand rapidly in just one day :) The website that flaviopezzini sent me has also been helping my way through the language :P
I havn't progressed far with TY, but I finished the second hour of Michel Thomas today. On top of that, I learnt the 100 most common verbs in Arabic (very helpful, I felt I was lacking), and also some common adjectives :)
At the moment, I am working through the pages on http://arabic.desert-sky.net getting a feel for the grammatical aspects of Arabic. In a later post I will give a very simple explanation of all of them, as it's all not really that hard :)
All in all, I love learning this language – alashen huwa sahl jidan! – because its so easy
Thats all I got time for, Im about to fall asleep .. expect a more detailed update once I've had some sleeee…..zzzzzz
Learning (conversational):
Learning (beginner):
23:43
November 27, 2011
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ShaunMcBride said:
السلام عليكم
انا ساكتب قليلا بالعربية هنا عندما انا قادر
الله اكبر
التصحيحات بالنص
Learning:
14:27
July 15, 2011
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Shukran Gaius :)
This week I've been mostly ill, and not been able to concentrate on a whole lot. I couldn't pluck up the mental capacity to talk a lot of English, let alone Arabic. While I've been ill, I have been reading through lots of explanations of Arabic grammar, trying to get a feel for how it all works. Havn't learnt any of it, just getting used to it. What I have found is that it's not too hard overall, just complicated. The spoken Arabic (lets say, Egyptian) is a whole lot simpler than the written formal one. For example, there is only one word for ''that'' (as in, I spoke to some people THAT spoke arabic) in Egyptian, whereas there are 6 (i think) in formal Arabic.
Inspired by Benny's post the other day, I started thinking, what do I want Arabic for? I want to be able to speak to people. I don't particularly have any desire to be able to understand the news, or read newspapers, or anything like that. In fact, I don't even want to be able to read. Speaking is the goal. And therefore, what Arabic should I be learning? I don't want to sound like a newspaper, or a news reporter, I want to sound normal.
So, I have changed my goals slightly:
I will stop learning everything through the medium of the Arabic alphabet. I gave up transliteration on my first attempt and worked solely with the alphabet, which works very well for learning to read and write. However, that's not what I want. It actually HINDERS spoken communication, as you cannot see the vowels. So, I will learn things through transliteration, i.e. how to speak Arabic. I can always learn to write later, just as natives would.
I will also learn spoken arabic constructs, as opposed to formal ones. The vocabulary can be different, but it's not by a significant amount. It is the constructs that are different, and less complicated in Spoken Arabic. So, seeing as every Arabic native can SPEAK arabic, that is what I'll be learning.
I will only learn words that I can see myself using on a regular basis. The word ''Pyramid'', I don't think I'll need that ;)
Soon, I hope to be able to record a video in Arabic, talking on different subjects. Obviously, the topic-specific vocabulary will be learnt for that, but no prior preparation or script will be made :)
See you soon!
Shaun
Learning (conversational):
Learning (beginner):
23:34
July 15, 2011
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Ahlan we sahlan asadeeqa'ee :)
Ena ayiz ashukr-ak, 3alashen enta qaarat al-shay' illi ena katabt huna, we aqaal al-kiteer min shukran alay aHda hom sa3adtuu-ya ma3a 3arabeeya
Dilwe'ti, ena hahwal aktab bi-3arabi saHiH, la bi-3arabi ma3a ingleeza
أهلا وسهلا أصدقاء :)
انا عايز اشكرك, عالاشن (؟) انت قرأت الشيء الذي انا كتبت هنا, و اقال الكتير من "شكرا" على احد هم سعدتوي مع عاربي
Okay, In English now :)
There are probably a few mistakes in things, especcially the writing as thats not what ive been learning :) However, I'm trying, and there will be a short (unscripted) video of me talking arabic soon :)
So, how far have I got?
I'm pretty much able to pick out what word is what in a sentence, if that makes sense. I can look at most Arabic sentences and understand their formation, and if I knew the words, I'd know what it meant. I think this is mostly due to the fact that Arabic sentence construction is just easy. In spoken Arabic, even more so. I'd say it almost equals chinese (for those who have studied it) in terms of ease of sentence construction.
That said, my Arabic still isn't perfect. Conversations have been slow and painful, but I hope with more practise I'll get there. In a recent conversation I realised that I didn't know any of the words I needed, so now I've concentrated more on conversational words than long-term words. I've been skimming my Teach Yourself book for useful language "Tools" and words that I can use right away. I'll keep going through in this fashion, as opposed to a linear one, until I feel like I've taken everything I can use. I can always use it in future to increase my skill, but right now, I'm not interested in speaking about the Interior Minister, I just want a basic conversational knowledge of Arabic so that I can hold my own in conversation (which conversations is a different matter) and express myself without having to ask too many words, on which I could build if I ever wanted to take the time to become 'fluent' :D
Hope to be able to post a video here soon :)
See ya!
Learning (conversational):
Learning (beginner):
13:46
February 3, 2012
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On the issue of putting the alphabet aside and basically just working with transliterations: be careful you don't lose the benefit of the roots by not distinguishing similar sounding letters and constructions. I see learners doing that with Hebrew, and it does slow them down later. You could resolve that quite simply by putting both the proper spelling and the transliteration in your notes, which you may be doing already.
17:35
November 27, 2011
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ShaunMcBride said:
Ahlan we sahlan asadeeqa'ee :)
Ena ayiz ashukr-ak, 3alashen enta qaarat al-shay' illi ena katabt huna, we aqaal al-kiteer min shukran alay aHda hom sa3adtuu-ya ma3a 3arabeeya
Dilwe'ti, ena hahwal aktab bi-3arabi saHiH, la bi-3arabi ma3a ingleeza
أهلا وسهلا أصدقاء :)
انا عايز اشكرك, عالاشن (؟) انت قرأت الشيء الذي انا كتبت هنا, و اقال الكتير من "شكرا" على احد هم سعدتوي مع عاربي
Ahalan ya zalame
A few small things:
aqaal = اقال = to fire someone (from work)
The future form for قال is slightly different: اقول = aquul .
الكتير من "شكرا"
Egyptians say that? Maybe, but I'm familiar with شكرا جزيلا (shukran gazilan), thank you very much.
sa3adtuu-ya
1. The ending "ya" is for possession, as in "my house". Here you want the accusative, so use "..ni" . sa3adtuu-ni
2. Anyway, sa3adtu is for second person. If you want 3rd person use sa3adu. (sa3aduu-ni)
Good job 
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