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Travel isn’t necessary for language learning: How I learned more Italian in London than I did in Italy!

| 16 comments | Category: guest post

One of the most prominent myths in language learning is that you have to go to the country to successfully learn it. This is so untrue!! I have always said that it depends on your attitude not your latitude and moving to the country may not help at all in some cases.

This topic will be demonstrated in detail over the coming months, because my next three month mission begins on Tuesday in the wrong country, and I genuinely believe I’ll learn the language faster than I would in the country that actually speaks that language, and perhaps even arrive in the country in January for the first time speaking the language fluently, so I can focus my time there entirely on cultural exploration. More on this very soon!

In the mean time, an Fi3M reader is going to echo my thoughts on this today. Samuel from Samueltravels discovered my site, had a read through the Speak from day 1 package and, applying some of my advice, actually learned more Italian in London than he did in Italy. This post describes his thoughts on that. Over to you Samuel!

I think my first and largest regret in Italy was that I hadn’t learned more of its language before arriving.

It was a year earlier that I’d come up with the idea to go there. A dream that I concocted during the summer, where I found myself stranded near Auschwitz with my bicycle, 40 euros, and no shoes. Given that I did indeed wanted to go home, and that I was unable to see another solution in achieving this, I decided that I would just have to cycle back to London. What then proceeded was one of them grand ol’ tales of the road, and it was during those many hours sat on that saddle that a bigger idea for a bigger adventure took hold of me;

To go to Italy the next summer with whatever money I could find, and to go there and cycle ALL of it, with the aim of mastering its language and also its world-famous cucina by learning recipes from Italian Mamas that I would meet upon the way.

Now I’m in Italy, realising this idea that I’d fantasised about.

However there was a whole year that passed between deciding I would go to Italy and actually being here now. A whole year that I could’ve spent learning the language. A whole year that if I’d spent studying the language at home, I believe I could’ve been fluent in before arriving. Yes, fluent. So why the hell did I arrive in Italy managing to do little more than express simple concepts?

Because I’m an idiot. That’s the simple answer. I had that typical English mentality where you think, ‘alright, go to another country for a few months, come back fluent, badabing, badaboom’. A lot of us here unfortunately have this idea where we just think going to another country means you automatically learn the language; that it’s easy there, and that it’s impossible here.

Well as Benny has mentioned many times, there are hundreds of thousands of examples in the world of this not being this case, from expats living for 20 years in Thailand and still not knowing more than a few phrases, to the girl (Nikki) from just a few posts ago who was still struggling with French after more than a year of living there.

By no means at all am I trying to have a go at any of these people, but instead I am just trying to underline that being in a place won’t give you the language; it will require an effort, you’ll need to push your boundaries, it will be frustrating at times, and it will always be like this no matter where you are.

But learning it will also be greatly gratifying and rewarding, and for me it’s been a challenging experience that I’ve enjoyed thoroughly (almost) all the way through.

Why not learn it from home intensively?

While the other good news is that if learning a language is difficult no matter where you are, it means you may as well learn it no matter where you are. There isn’t this massive advantage of being in the country always, instead what there is, and what there always will be, is an effort; an effort that you have to make and commit to. One that you can make anywhere.

One of the biggest mistakes I made in the last year was not realising how much I could’ve been learning at home in London. Or at least until it was too late.

I’d been faffing around with a grammar book and a bit of rosetta stone here and there throughout the year, but I couldn’t say a word, read anything, and I hadn’t bothered listening to the language at all so it all still just sounded like gobbledy-goop.

I found Benny’s book a month before heading off, it finally gave me the motivation to up my game, and I have been applying his philosophy and tips from that moment since. A week later I was going out with an Italian girl that I met through doing language exchanges (though a week later we’d broken up… latin love affairs) and I was finally speaking the language and getting to understand a slither of it.

I watched films everyday in Italian in my free time, and I perused the grammar gently during spare moments on trains and stuff. Yes, I know I still did say earlier that I didn’t really understand anything when I arrived in Italy, but it’s only that understanding really takes quite a lot of time; I still felt I made incredible progress during those few weeks before, and at that point I was beginning to hear the words… I just wished I’d started doing it earlier.

Problems with learning in the country itself

But now here in Italy, my life has since been pretty crazy. And by that I don’t mean crazy in the way the drunk girl at the pool party goes ‘hey look how crazy I am, woooooooo!’ and jumps into the pool with all her clothes on. I mean actually pretty hectic, I never know what I am doing, where I am going, or where I will sleep.

During my journeying it wasn’t uncommon to find myself being chased by stray dogs at 2 in the morning in a small town, before finally pedalling away, and ending up being so tired that I just passed out on a bench. Now the life I chose out here is obviously an extreme example, but my point here is – no matter what you do – when you move to a new country, your life will be different, it will take time to adjust, to understand the new place you’re in, and to make friends; it will be a bit hectic for you too.

You know what was great about learning Italian back in London (apart from my bed and lack of vicious dogs)? That it was my city and that my life was there.

My schedule meant I had a routine, I could fit language learning into my life, and I could arrange meetings with people from other countries to learn their language.

While also back at home, I was the boss, these other people were the foreigners, and so everyone wanted to know me. It’s the other way round here. In fact no Italians really had time for me when I first got here because I couldn’t say anything, and I actually ended up learning all of my Italian off a Filipino lady.

In travel mode, it’s hard to get into a routine

Just because there’s a ton of natives here doesn’t mean they all want to speak to you and that you will speak to all of them. Not that anyone was rude, I had a really great time, and I wouldn’t want to put anyone off going and approaching people in other countries for conversations… I’m just saying I think I actually would’ve found it easier at home to find people to speak to, as Italian expats in London were easier to properly befriend than Italians in Italy.

Also the way I’ve always been moving and travelling in Italy has been a bit of a nuisance to language learning attempts. Through doing this I’m always meeting different people and having the same ol’ conversations filled with formalities. If you want to learn a language it’s about building relationships, not moving, for it’s in these relationships with people that you have more intimate conversations, and higher levels of speaking will then be demanded and learned.

And in London I had the opportunity to build these relationships, and I’m sure as Benny will show starting next week, it would’ve also been possible in any other place.

Out here in Italy I’m constantly trying to find new people that will speak to me, and as a result, learning this language has been a real effort, as in an active effort that I’ve constantly had to pursue.

The language has never been given to me simply because I’m here, I’m always running after it. I really can’t emphasise this enough, natives haven’t just been falling out of the sky going ‘here boy, have this slice of Italian knowledge’, I have to hunt and pin them down and force myself to speak with them. You could do this anywhere; Italy isn’t teaching me Italian, I’m teaching myself Italian.

Avoiding English?

“But what about all the English you don’t speak because you’re immersed in Italy and its language” you might say.

Well, actually all my progress has been without blocking off my English. I unfortunately have ended up having to speak it far too much here, probably more than I’ve spoken Italian.

Of course I’m sure my progress would be even faster if I’d managed to cut it off, but I had to work here initially, and the thing is about getting a job in another country when you first arrive is that it’s probably going to be in your language since that is the only skill you are really bringing.

Additionally my cycling is now over and I’m back in Milan to work, and part of the deal in which I’m getting free rent and food in this penthouse in the city centre is that I speak English (I know, woe is me right?). So one point here is that another country doesn’t automatically give you an immersion experience (I know Italy definitely hasn’t for me), that even if you go somewhere else, English can be really hard to avoid (or at least you’ll have to avoid it at great cost/penthouse accommodations) and you’ll still have to be searching for ways to get speaking in their language.

But an even more important point we can take from this, is that all the progress I’ve made has been without ever having blocked off my native language. So that means you can learn your language at home, while you are still speaking your native language all the time.

In fact, given how much time I’ve been spending speaking English, I don’t see any reason why you couldn’t be speaking Italian as good as (and if not better than) I am after the same amount of time studying it from your country (3/4 months). In my opinion, what’s more important than blocking off your language completely is consistency; making real friends who speak the language you want to learn, and making the language a regular part of your life.

Dedicate your free time to learning the language, to being near the language. That’s what I do here, and that’s why I’m really starting to get into learning it now, finally. I’m surrounded by English here, where I live, where I work, but I make an effort to go out and find Italian.

So go out and find your language. Rather than expect the country to teach you the language, you have to take it upon yourself to teach yourself the language, no matter where you are.

If you’re curious, here is what my Italian sounds like now, 3 months into learning it:

Thanks for reading, check out my blog, and let me know your thoughts on this in the comments below!

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  • http://leakygrammar.wordpress.com/ Gavin

    Hey Samuel, nice post! You wrote, “Well, actually all my progress has been without blocking off my English.” I agree with this. I’ve never quite been sure how to address the idea that you shouldn’t use your first language while learning another, and being an English teacher, I never felt an English (or whatever language your teaching) only policy in the classroom was a great idea, I mean, everyone already knows one (or several) languages and I’ve always tried to find new ways to use that existing knowledge in applying it to a new language. It seems to me that many (if not most) people in the world are multilingual, and thinking we have to block out our fist language in learning another comes from a kind of bias, a kind of one language at a time type of thinking. At least this has been my experience living in Hawaii, and I actually think I’ve learned more Japanese here than when I lived in Japan:) I guess it’s easy to forget, like the idea of your post expresses, that it’s not so much where you are, but rather who you spend your time with. Good luck with your Italian! Aloha!

    • Sam

      Exactly. However I’m sure completely blocking off your language probably would help, but maybe you could argue it’s only becase it means by default that you’d be speaking and listening far more to the one you’re trying to learn.

      Also people have explained interesting points of Italian grammar to me in English, which has greatly helped me later, so I agree with your point there… If I’m having to speak English all flipping day anyway, then what’s the harm of hearing an extra sentence or so in it during a lesson? Especially if it’s going to let me understand something about the language that I wouldn’t have been able to otherwise.

      It’s funny that you mention Japan as that’s where I’m going in January. I found a host family who don’t speak English and am looking forward to the experience of being out there for 3 months without speaking a word of my language. I guess then I’ll know how much difference it makes…
      But the fact is when you’re learning another language, you’re always translating from your own into it, so in that sense no matter what you’re doing, you’ll never be getting too far away from your native language, and it’s never going to be completely ‘blocked off’ I suppose.

      • http://twitter.com/fluentlanguage Fluent

        I agree! I think one of the main reasons for staying away from a “target language only” approach is the big intimidation that you risk as a learner. For most language learners (not you intrepid deep-end diving cycling world travel couchsurfing lot), one of the most intimidating moments is facing your first native speaker. Now cutting out the comfort blanket of your native language entirely while practicing immersion! I can say it’s not my own favourite way of learning.

        The other big reason I like to use source language when learning and when teaching languages is the opportunity it allows a learner to draw the lines and connections between the two languages. My personal experience is that one of the greatest things when you learn a language is that bell moment in your head, when you feel like the dam’s broken and you finally understand the point of a conditionnel or dative.

        Blocking off is a bit of a misleading expression, isn’t it?

        • Sam

          Yup, I agree.

          I’ve managed to draw a million lines between Italian and English, I understand what points of grammar are the same, and where you need to change them and how to do this.

          This means generally I speak Italian pretty well. Not like a native, and not to say just because of accent, but also because of the colloquial way of speaking, but instead I mean to say that I speak without too many grammatical errors now.

          However at the same time, I do wonder if the fact that I’ve made all these connections is slightly counterproductive; it means I’ve made a very good system from translating from English to Italian and vice versa, rather than accepting things in their own context.

          For example we say ‘a good place to eat’ but in Italian they say ‘a good place from eating’. In my head I’ve made this rule about when you have to change the English ‘to’ to ‘from’. And when I’m in Italy my brain just switches to thinking in this different style of English, rather than just accepting ‘un buon posto da mangiare’ for what it is itself.

          Maybe it would be faster and more natural progress without all these rules…

          However I can say is what I’ve done has worked, and I haven’t met any other people who have progressed in Italian so fast out here (I’m sure they exist in the world, just I haven’t met any).

          Perhaps the translating is just a necessary step for now because I haven’t had enough exposure to the language to give it context in its own right.

          I’ll have to see!

          • http://twitter.com/fluentlanguage Fluent

            It’s interesting what you’re saying. When I moved to the UK, I continued to study French at university and had about 2 or 3 months during which it was really quite tough to suddenly speak French from English, not from German. I’d get my languages mixed up a lot, but with time that switch became a lot easier to make. I usually try not to prepare the sentences in my head in my source language, and then translate, and instead think about what I do know around what I want to say and then how to just say something as close to what I mean as possible.

          • Sam

            Yup I don’t prepare sentences either… it never seems to work for some reason, though I think this is the same in your own language as well… if you go up to someone with a prepared sentence in mind it usually comes out really badly. It’s easier just to let words fall out of your mouth.

            It’s probably a reason people have so much trouble learning languages at the beginning, they want to prepare all of the sentences, and it’s like doing long division in your head keeping it all up there.

            It’s like going up to a beautiful woman on the street, if you prepare a line, it will probably come out really badly. If you just stop her by saying excuse me, and see what happens next, it could go much smoother. Or terribly. But in both scenarios the risk is worth it.

          • http://twitter.com/fluentlanguage Fluent

            What a fab comparison. I clearly haven’t chatted anyone up for a while!

  • http://howlearnspanish.com/ Andrew

    Great post, and I absolutely agree on how much watching movies in the language can help, even if you can barely understand it (there are those things called “pause” and “rewind” buttons, they should be used liberally along with a dictionary ;) haha )–the best way to do it is find movies on DVD that have subtitles in the same language that the movie is spoken in (e.g. Italian subtitles for an Italian movie) and then use the subtitles to figure out what was said so you can go look up whatever you need to in order to understand it, then once you do that you just rewind and replay it for listening comprehension until you can understand what they’re saying, then move onto the next line.

    Cheers,
    Andrew

  • Gioele Antox

    “…domani è festa”. Tomorrow it’s holiday. Are you sure you weren’t in Italy? :D

    • Sam

      I think the biggest giveaway that I’m in Italy and not London is actually the sun.

  • Steve H

    Great story…inspiration for my poor French.

  • Sam

    Yes, I’m feeling the same.

    I’m still by no means fluent in Italian… I can hold conversations indefinitely with one person, but I’d say every 5 minutes in a conversation something will come up where I have a bit of difficulty saying it, either by having to search for a word, or my grammar failing me a bit.

    Group conversations still go over my head, but that’s also because I have a very short attention span and if the people aren’t directly speaking to me, I phase out quite quickly. In fact I’m quite prone to doing this even in English.

    However, I’m definitely moving closer to fluency. I feel when I speak Italian now it’s not coming from English always, it’s just Italian. Sometimes (rarely) I think in Italian, however only simple concepts (ie ‘turn left here’).

    So I’m sure it’s happening. Even right now, while I’m speaking 90% English everyday, I can still feel that little bit of Italian is getting stronger and stronger.

    Keep it up, I’m sure it will happen.

  • Sam

    Yes well I can actually really relate to this.

    I didn’t have a job in Italy, but I did cycle for up to 10 hours a day sometimes.

    Naturally it’s hard to study or speak a language while on a bike saddle for 10 hours.

    So I used to make up songs in Italian and sing them to myself, or just talk to myself the whole time in the language.

    I wasn’t sure if it was doing much, but actually looking back now I can see it did quite a bit.

    So yes, just try thinking to yourself in Chinese… I mean it can’t do any harm. Or hum little made up songs to yourself.

    Though then again I have to say… Shouldn’t you just be working? Given that you are at work and all.

    Good luck pal!

    Sam

  • Sam

    Ciao amico,

    Bravo! E complimenti per il tuo Italiano!

    Il tuo grande problema è che non capisci tutto? Allora, questo è il grande problema di tutti chi imparano un’altra lingua! Per me il grande problema non è che non capisco tutto, ma che ci sono le volte in cui non capisco NIENTE di quello che sento!

    Ma come hai detto… ‘piano, piano’… si deve accettare il fatto che va così, e continua a studiare. E solo farlo in modo che ti diverti!

    Buona fortuna, forse ci vediamo un giorno qui nel paese di sole e tutti le cose migliori da mangiare.

    Ciao Ciao!

  • http://twitter.com/fluentlanguage Fluent

    If there’s a bit of a Chinese community where you live (I can think of lots of English speaking countries where that might apply), you could try to perhaps order your food in Chinese or even prepare a little talk about China in the community, and then deliver it in Chinese? I remember that one of my favourite Spanish learning tools was having to make a presentation about a Spanish speaking country.

    Other tips would be what Sam said – Chinese music could be an awesome way of staying engaged without working too hard. And one of my everlasting language tricks is to just write LOTS of post-its and stick them up all over the house – for the last 2 months, there have been dish-related French words stuck up on the cupboard above my sink.

  • lucy

    I’m inspired. I like your attitude on this topic and found it helpful to my current project! Thanks!