Comments on: Is it better to travel to villages for language/cultural immersion? http://www.fluentin3months.com/villages-for-immersion/ Unconventional language hacking tips from Benny the Irish polyglot; travelling the world to learn languages to fluency and beyond! Thu, 09 Sep 2010 12:22:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Cainntear http://www.fluentin3months.com/villages-for-immersion/comment-page-1/#comment-5656 Cainntear Mon, 12 Apr 2010 02:35:23 +0000 http://www.fluentin3months.com/?p=1640#comment-5656 To me the city/town difference is not about forcing yourself/being forced to speak the language -- it's about the ease of integration. Walk into a bar in a city and nobody bats an eyelid, but walk into a similar bar in a small town and somebody will say hello.<br><br>A lot of people can't just force their way into a circle of friends. People willing to dress up as leprechauns and produce videos on the Irish language have more confidence than most.... ;-) To me the city/town difference is not about forcing yourself/being forced to speak the language — it's about the ease of integration. Walk into a bar in a city and nobody bats an eyelid, but walk into a similar bar in a small town and somebody will say hello.

A lot of people can't just force their way into a circle of friends. People willing to dress up as leprechauns and produce videos on the Irish language have more confidence than most…. ;-)

]]> By: Fast Jay http://www.fluentin3months.com/villages-for-immersion/comment-page-1/#comment-5069 Fast Jay Sun, 21 Feb 2010 20:22:26 +0000 http://www.fluentin3months.com/?p=1640#comment-5069 Interesting Link about exogamy. I heard about a south-american tribe where the men and women speak different languages.<br><br>About the city/village thing, i guess whatever motivates people the most. Some will prefer a, others get better results with b... Interesting Link about exogamy. I heard about a south-american tribe where the men and women speak different languages.

About the city/village thing, i guess whatever motivates people the most. Some will prefer a, others get better results with b…

]]> By: Cherrye Moore http://www.fluentin3months.com/villages-for-immersion/comment-page-1/#comment-5061 Cherrye Moore Fri, 19 Feb 2010 15:46:15 +0000 http://www.fluentin3months.com/?p=1640#comment-5061 I was going to mention the dialect thing in villages, as well. Here in southern Italy there are whole villages of people who don't really speak Italian, just their local dialects. I think the main thing to remember-as you've pointed out-is that you have to be dedicated to NOT speaking English, regardless of your location. I was going to mention the dialect thing in villages, as well. Here in southern Italy there are whole villages of people who don't really speak Italian, just their local dialects. I think the main thing to remember-as you've pointed out-is that you have to be dedicated to NOT speaking English, regardless of your location.

]]> By: Jean-Paul Setlak http://www.fluentin3months.com/villages-for-immersion/comment-page-1/#comment-5060 Jean-Paul Setlak Fri, 19 Feb 2010 00:15:22 +0000 http://www.fluentin3months.com/?p=1640#comment-5060 It depends on your personality and the availability of willing natives. I kind of like the beach, quiet environment. But it is probably easier to get involved in normal life in a city. The GF/BF approach can work, though I had a Taiwanese girlfriend and she was adamant about practicing English at all times. Benevolent friends who are wiling to teach me have been my best source of practice (in mandarin). It depends on your personality and the availability of willing natives. I kind of like the beach, quiet environment. But it is probably easier to get involved in normal life in a city. The GF/BF approach can work, though I had a Taiwanese girlfriend and she was adamant about practicing English at all times. Benevolent friends who are wiling to teach me have been my best source of practice (in mandarin).

]]> By: Steve http://www.fluentin3months.com/villages-for-immersion/comment-page-1/#comment-5059 Steve Thu, 18 Feb 2010 21:12:34 +0000 http://www.fluentin3months.com/?p=1640#comment-5059 This is true but the opposite can also be true. In some countries the big cities have their own distinct dialects and the smaller towns have the more common speech. Wasn't Carioca an example of this? I haven't been to Brazil so I don't know.<br>In Central America in a lot of villages they use the standard form more than in cities. Even England is an example of this trend in a lot of places. This is true but the opposite can also be true. In some countries the big cities have their own distinct dialects and the smaller towns have the more common speech. Wasn't Carioca an example of this? I haven't been to Brazil so I don't know.
In Central America in a lot of villages they use the standard form more than in cities. Even England is an example of this trend in a lot of places.

]]> By: Benny the Irish polyglot http://www.fluentin3months.com/villages-for-immersion/comment-page-1/#comment-5058 Benny the Irish polyglot Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:05:18 +0000 http://www.fluentin3months.com/?p=1640#comment-5058 Excellent point!! Although there are villages in the same region as cities, there are definitely plenty with vastly different dialects, which can also be detrimental in the long run to a learner, especially if those in cities look on particular rural dialects negatively (which is unfortunately the case in some countries).<br>Another excellent reason to choose cities over most villages (unless you really like villages for their own non-linguistic benefits) Excellent point!! Although there are villages in the same region as cities, there are definitely plenty with vastly different dialects, which can also be detrimental in the long run to a learner, especially if those in cities look on particular rural dialects negatively (which is unfortunately the case in some countries).
Another excellent reason to choose cities over most villages (unless you really like villages for their own non-linguistic benefits)

]]> By: Graham http://www.fluentin3months.com/villages-for-immersion/comment-page-1/#comment-5053 Graham Wed, 17 Feb 2010 21:19:15 +0000 http://www.fluentin3months.com/?p=1640#comment-5053 Don't forget you may run into a different dialect. This is particularly true in China (at least from my own experience). If you decide to learn Chinese in some backwater village you might just end up learning the local dialect as opposed to standard Chinese. There are many different dialects and even native Chinese have a hard time understanding each other! Don't forget you may run into a different dialect. This is particularly true in China (at least from my own experience). If you decide to learn Chinese in some backwater village you might just end up learning the local dialect as opposed to standard Chinese. There are many different dialects and even native Chinese have a hard time understanding each other!

]]> By: Benny the Irish polyglot http://www.fluentin3months.com/villages-for-immersion/comment-page-1/#comment-5049 Benny the Irish polyglot Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:03:16 +0000 http://www.fluentin3months.com/?p=1640#comment-5049 That's the whole point :) I'm definitely saying that learning in a city is "harder", but it's better that people have that struggle in the long run.<br>If and when I take on Korean, they can try to default to English, but I'll be ready and know how to (politely) force the conversation back to Korean, thanks to my other city stays.<br>Nobody said learning a language was going to be easy ;) I promote easy shortcuts in most of my posts, but in this case I am saying grin-and-bear-it and struggle with something hard :) That's the whole point :) I'm definitely saying that learning in a city is “harder”, but it's better that people have that struggle in the long run.
If and when I take on Korean, they can try to default to English, but I'll be ready and know how to (politely) force the conversation back to Korean, thanks to my other city stays.
Nobody said learning a language was going to be easy ;) I promote easy shortcuts in most of my posts, but in this case I am saying grin-and-bear-it and struggle with something hard :)

]]> By: Neil Barker http://www.fluentin3months.com/villages-for-immersion/comment-page-1/#comment-5048 Neil Barker Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:55:57 +0000 http://www.fluentin3months.com/?p=1640#comment-5048 I partly agree. I've had some good conversations with Korean people in both cities and in small villages. But in the end, the conversations in the city are much more personally interesting to me. The only problem here in Korea is that people in the city are likely to speak at least basic English, and will often default to English. Makes learning Korean a little more difficult! I partly agree. I've had some good conversations with Korean people in both cities and in small villages. But in the end, the conversations in the city are much more personally interesting to me. The only problem here in Korea is that people in the city are likely to speak at least basic English, and will often default to English. Makes learning Korean a little more difficult!

]]> By: Jim Morrison http://www.fluentin3months.com/villages-for-immersion/comment-page-1/#comment-5045 Jim Morrison Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:07:51 +0000 http://www.fluentin3months.com/?p=1640#comment-5045 You might wanna read about this ;-)<br><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exogamy#Linguistic_exogamy" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exogamy#Linguistic...</a><br><br>Jim You might wanna read about this ;-)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exogamy#Linguistic...

Jim

]]> By: TropicalMBA http://www.fluentin3months.com/villages-for-immersion/comment-page-1/#comment-5024 TropicalMBA Wed, 17 Feb 2010 07:15:17 +0000 http://www.fluentin3months.com/?p=1640#comment-5024 Thanks, I'm going to use your approach and see what I can do. 3 months is a daunting and exciting prospect at the same time. Thanks, I'm going to use your approach and see what I can do. 3 months is a daunting and exciting prospect at the same time.

]]> By: Benny the Irish polyglot http://www.fluentin3months.com/villages-for-immersion/comment-page-1/#comment-5022 Benny the Irish polyglot Wed, 17 Feb 2010 07:03:01 +0000 http://www.fluentin3months.com/?p=1640#comment-5022 Hey Dan! Until I release an e-book I can't go into much detail :P However, I did write a post that summarises <a href="http://www.fluentin3months.com/how-to-speak-a-language-pretty-well-starting-from-scratch-in-just-two-months/" rel="nofollow">what I tend to do</a> to reach fluency in 2-3 months.<br>With tutors, I always basically take control of the class, so I avoid those who have a set method they always follow. I can study in my own time, so classes are for <b>practice and correction</b>, and only discussing grammar rules that I've already looked at myself and am having trouble with. Tutorials have to be combined with your own study and used purely for the speaking aspect. If I don't hear a single correction of how I speak over an entire 5 minute period I dump the teacher and find a new one.<br>This is probably the best advice I can give for now; try out a big bunch and stick with the one you feel is definitely going to be in synch with your language projects the best :) And use the class in conjunction with a huge-ass amount of practice and studying you do outside of the class! Hey Dan! Until I release an e-book I can't go into much detail :P However, I did write a post that summarises what I tend to do to reach fluency in 2-3 months.
With tutors, I always basically take control of the class, so I avoid those who have a set method they always follow. I can study in my own time, so classes are for practice and correction, and only discussing grammar rules that I've already looked at myself and am having trouble with. Tutorials have to be combined with your own study and used purely for the speaking aspect. If I don't hear a single correction of how I speak over an entire 5 minute period I dump the teacher and find a new one.
This is probably the best advice I can give for now; try out a big bunch and stick with the one you feel is definitely going to be in synch with your language projects the best :) And use the class in conjunction with a huge-ass amount of practice and studying you do outside of the class!

]]> By: Benny the Irish polyglot http://www.fluentin3months.com/villages-for-immersion/comment-page-1/#comment-5023 Benny the Irish polyglot Wed, 17 Feb 2010 06:55:09 +0000 http://www.fluentin3months.com/?p=1640#comment-5023 Hey Steve, thanks for your comment!<br><br>Yes, it's easier in villages, but you're still ignoring the extra skill I've talked about which I feel is essential AFTER the village stay. A lot of language learners do need to be toughened up for the real world where they'll have to deal with English being present.<br><br>Re: doing things you do at home: If you are going around the world for a few months, then you definitely want everything to be different; but this is my (7 year so far) full-time lifestyle, so I am very honestly telling you that I like a nice balance of the familiar (occasionally having beans on toast for breakfast, watching silly Hollywood explosion blockbusters, hanging out with like-minded people through Couchsurfing etc.) of doing the things I do at home mixed in with speaking the local language and living city-versions of the local culture ;) As I said; I'm not interested in proving myself as a true traveller; I'd rather keep my sanity over my vanity ;) . A lot of other travellers go extra lengths, and tell you all about it, but then again <i>they</i> need English (which they have at home...)<br><br>Actually, I usually prefer small cities that are not so much "on the radar" - especially student cities, like Toulouse in France, Salamanca in Spain for example. However, you'd be kidding yourself if you thought you could avoid English in these places without making a conscious effort to do so, so even though they aren't the tourist-hubs of a country, they are still cities with English speaking youth and lots of other expats, which requires the extra work I talked about.<br><br>Sadly, you are right that most language speakers would not be as successful. So this post doesn't imply that cities are better for everyone, but I'm just pointing out the inconvenient truth that those planning on language immersion in villages need to consider ;) Hey Steve, thanks for your comment!

Yes, it's easier in villages, but you're still ignoring the extra skill I've talked about which I feel is essential AFTER the village stay. A lot of language learners do need to be toughened up for the real world where they'll have to deal with English being present.

Re: doing things you do at home: If you are going around the world for a few months, then you definitely want everything to be different; but this is my (7 year so far) full-time lifestyle, so I am very honestly telling you that I like a nice balance of the familiar (occasionally having beans on toast for breakfast, watching silly Hollywood explosion blockbusters, hanging out with like-minded people through Couchsurfing etc.) of doing the things I do at home mixed in with speaking the local language and living city-versions of the local culture ;) As I said; I'm not interested in proving myself as a true traveller; I'd rather keep my sanity over my vanity ;) . A lot of other travellers go extra lengths, and tell you all about it, but then again they need English (which they have at home…)

Actually, I usually prefer small cities that are not so much “on the radar” – especially student cities, like Toulouse in France, Salamanca in Spain for example. However, you'd be kidding yourself if you thought you could avoid English in these places without making a conscious effort to do so, so even though they aren't the tourist-hubs of a country, they are still cities with English speaking youth and lots of other expats, which requires the extra work I talked about.

Sadly, you are right that most language speakers would not be as successful. So this post doesn't imply that cities are better for everyone, but I'm just pointing out the inconvenient truth that those planning on language immersion in villages need to consider ;)

]]> By: Benny the Irish polyglot http://www.fluentin3months.com/villages-for-immersion/comment-page-1/#comment-5021 Benny the Irish polyglot Wed, 17 Feb 2010 06:42:30 +0000 http://www.fluentin3months.com/?p=1640#comment-5021 It depends on the girlfriend; finding one that doesn't mind correcting you often is indeed extremely difficult. Lucky for me, I'm stubborn (as I say in this article), so I'm attracted to equally stubborn girls :P It depends on the girlfriend; finding one that doesn't mind correcting you often is indeed extremely difficult. Lucky for me, I'm stubborn (as I say in this article), so I'm attracted to equally stubborn girls :P

]]> By: Steve http://www.fluentin3months.com/villages-for-immersion/comment-page-1/#comment-5020 Steve Wed, 17 Feb 2010 02:01:57 +0000 http://www.fluentin3months.com/?p=1640#comment-5020 Obviously for you cities are best to serve your purposes. From my experience I have to disagree though when talking from a purely language standpoint for the average language seeker. I've had lots of experiences with languages in both cities and villages and the 3rd option - average sized towns and it is far easier to progress quickly in villages and towns because of the main problem that so many people speak or want to speak English. I know you explained how to stubbornly and determindly fight through these barriers but I believe most language seekers wouldn't be as successful as you in this.<br>Forgetting other reasons for choice of location, if the consideration is purely language then the natural immersion you get in non-English speaking places is much more motivating (for most people, maybe) then having to go through the extra work you talked about.<br>Have you tried a big town or city that has all the modern comforts you need but is not on the foreigner radar? There are many of them in most countries. <br>Also, personally I've found that big/capital city dwellers are very similar all over the world and 'villagers' and their way of life are not. Like you said that your experience of being an English speaking tourist was quite empty (I agree), for me and maybe others city life is also quite empty, why go around the world to do the things you do at home?<br>Anyway I respect your reasons for preferring cities but am just putting forward an alternative opinion. Another good idea for a post by the way. Obviously for you cities are best to serve your purposes. From my experience I have to disagree though when talking from a purely language standpoint for the average language seeker. I've had lots of experiences with languages in both cities and villages and the 3rd option – average sized towns and it is far easier to progress quickly in villages and towns because of the main problem that so many people speak or want to speak English. I know you explained how to stubbornly and determindly fight through these barriers but I believe most language seekers wouldn't be as successful as you in this.
Forgetting other reasons for choice of location, if the consideration is purely language then the natural immersion you get in non-English speaking places is much more motivating (for most people, maybe) then having to go through the extra work you talked about.
Have you tried a big town or city that has all the modern comforts you need but is not on the foreigner radar? There are many of them in most countries.
Also, personally I've found that big/capital city dwellers are very similar all over the world and 'villagers' and their way of life are not. Like you said that your experience of being an English speaking tourist was quite empty (I agree), for me and maybe others city life is also quite empty, why go around the world to do the things you do at home?
Anyway I respect your reasons for preferring cities but am just putting forward an alternative opinion. Another good idea for a post by the way.

]]> By: Mel http://www.fluentin3months.com/villages-for-immersion/comment-page-1/#comment-5019 Mel Wed, 17 Feb 2010 01:42:39 +0000 http://www.fluentin3months.com/?p=1640#comment-5019 That's actually not such a great idea. Well, maybe it is, but not for learning a language. A boyfriend/girlfriend is the *worst* teacher, and an even worse conversation partner. All the other relationship tensions get wound up in not being able to say "ř". Trust me on this one... That's actually not such a great idea. Well, maybe it is, but not for learning a language. A boyfriend/girlfriend is the *worst* teacher, and an even worse conversation partner. All the other relationship tensions get wound up in not being able to say “ř”. Trust me on this one…

]]> By: TropicalMBA http://www.fluentin3months.com/villages-for-immersion/comment-page-1/#comment-5018 TropicalMBA Wed, 17 Feb 2010 00:37:17 +0000 http://www.fluentin3months.com/?p=1640#comment-5018 I love it! I'm writing to encourage meeting your goal in two weeks! As a side note, and quite selfishly, I am increasingly interested in a "plan" to learn languages in 3 months. I've got a tutor but I'm not sure exactly how to direct her (because I'm sure you know better!). It would be great to see a quick post on how to help direct a tutor to teach you a language in 3 months. In a lot of countries, its really cheap! What kind of plan should I put in place? I don't need to tell you I'd be willing to pay for this information! Anyway, if you have the time, just thought I'd bring it up. I've checked out your basic resources and its still tough for me to piece together what your advice would be for a proven plan. Cheers Benny! I love it! I'm writing to encourage meeting your goal in two weeks! As a side note, and quite selfishly, I am increasingly interested in a “plan” to learn languages in 3 months. I've got a tutor but I'm not sure exactly how to direct her (because I'm sure you know better!). It would be great to see a quick post on how to help direct a tutor to teach you a language in 3 months. In a lot of countries, its really cheap! What kind of plan should I put in place? I don't need to tell you I'd be willing to pay for this information! Anyway, if you have the time, just thought I'd bring it up. I've checked out your basic resources and its still tough for me to piece together what your advice would be for a proven plan. Cheers Benny!

]]> By: Benny the Irish polyglot http://www.fluentin3months.com/villages-for-immersion/comment-page-1/#comment-5016 Benny the Irish polyglot Tue, 16 Feb 2010 23:39:19 +0000 http://www.fluentin3months.com/?p=1640#comment-5016 Why wouldn't it apply to Berlin? Does Germany's capital have some kind of gravity effect on foreigners speaking German that throws them out if they try?<br>If not, the same rules as all other cities apply! Starting from scratch is fine! Hang out with other learners first to feel less intimidated (and encouraged by your progress), and make sure to speak German from day one. The same <a href="http://www.fluentin3months.com/how-to-speak-a-language-pretty-well-starting-from-scratch-in-just-two-months/" rel="nofollow">advice I give for any place</a> would work just as well there ;) Why wouldn't it apply to Berlin? Does Germany's capital have some kind of gravity effect on foreigners speaking German that throws them out if they try?
If not, the same rules as all other cities apply! Starting from scratch is fine! Hang out with other learners first to feel less intimidated (and encouraged by your progress), and make sure to speak German from day one. The same advice I give for any place would work just as well there ;)

]]> By: jody1980 http://www.fluentin3months.com/villages-for-immersion/comment-page-1/#comment-5015 jody1980 Tue, 16 Feb 2010 22:41:25 +0000 http://www.fluentin3months.com/?p=1640#comment-5015 ciao Benny!<br>thanks for the great post! however, i'm wondering whether the city argument applies to berlin? i'm hoping to study/work for 3 months in berlin during the summer but i'm starting german from scratch...<br>any comments/ideas would be gratefully received :-))) ciao Benny!
thanks for the great post! however, i'm wondering whether the city argument applies to berlin? i'm hoping to study/work for 3 months in berlin during the summer but i'm starting german from scratch…
any comments/ideas would be gratefully received :-) ))

]]> By: Benny the Irish polyglot http://www.fluentin3months.com/villages-for-immersion/comment-page-1/#comment-5014 Benny the Irish polyglot Tue, 16 Feb 2010 21:41:35 +0000 http://www.fluentin3months.com/?p=1640#comment-5014 Yeah, I try to do that anyway. :P If anyone asks, I'm looking for a pretty girlfriend for um... cultural immersion.<br>Seriously though, it's definitely helped!! I find English speaking girls slightly less sexy because I know I could be learning so much more with a local :D<br>The "falling in love" part is a bit harder for someone in my situation - I'm pretty forward about the 3-month part of my stay... Yeah, I try to do that anyway. :P If anyone asks, I'm looking for a pretty girlfriend for um… cultural immersion.
Seriously though, it's definitely helped!! I find English speaking girls slightly less sexy because I know I could be learning so much more with a local :D
The “falling in love” part is a bit harder for someone in my situation – I'm pretty forward about the 3-month part of my stay…

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