Learn Modern Standard Arabic or dialect first? I say dialect and here’s why [video]

Learn Modern Standard Arabic or dialect first? I say dialect and here’s why [video]

Benny

Here you go – the first of several video updates from Egypt itself! As always, activate Youtube’s captions option to view subtitles as this is in Arabic, and I hope you like the new intro!

In this video, I met up with Nevein, an Egyptian who works for British Airways. Since she has travelled a good bit to other Arabic speaking countries, I figured we might as well talk about that – what exactly is “Arabic”? And how is Egyptian Arabic different, and how is it written?

Since I was only asking questions (and I probably should have prepared them better, since I was trying to think of good ones on the spot), this video isn’t the best one to showcase my normal spontaneous casual spoken level in the language, so I’ll make sure to have someone interview me before my time in Egypt is up, so you can hear me do more talking and hesitate much less (having to lead an interview is an extra distraction).

But for now, I’d rather let other people do most of the talking, especially in the cultural video updates! I prefer to share their stories while I’m here, rather than mine!

Modern Standard Arabic? I think not

Probably one of the most frequent comments I’ve received on my videos over the last months, usually from people in Arabic speaking countries that are not Egypt, or from elitist academics, all of whom ignored my travel-in-Egypt focus, has been “You should be learning Modern Standard Arabic (MSA)! It’s much better than dialect!”

Now that I’m actually using what I spent months preparing for, in the country itself, I can confirm that learning a dialect is far superior to learning MSA if you plan to speak the language. (Note that I’m not suggesting Egyptian dialect as superior; if I was going to any other country then its dialect would have been my focus)

If your goal is to use Arabic academically (or religiously) then by all means stick with MSA, as it’s the better choice for you.

But if you plan to make friends, buy things and haggle, travel, attempt to blend in and not get ripped off, watch a lot of TV such as comedy or soap operas, and even work in most jobs, then you’d be crazy to learn MSA first. Even the locals (a vast majority of them) do not speak it. They do indeed understand it, but you’d have to seriously and unrealistically restrict your interactions if you wanted a reply in MSA.

Let me say that again because it bears repeating: Most people in Arabic speaking countries do NOT speak Modern Standard Arabic. They ONLY speak dialect.

MSA’s use is for reading, for understanding religious matters, and for following very formal procedures or watching the news. (Although I’ve listened to some radio news in dialect).

The biggest myth that a lot of conversations with natives themselves has shown me to not be true, is that even Arabic speakers themselves do not use MSA when travelling to other countries.

It is not a “lingua franca” in practical use outside of formal settings, as you may think it could be. Nearly all Egyptians I’ve talked with have told me that they simply speak in their dialect, and muddle through (such as a Spanish speaker in Italy or Brazil would) or try to learn the local dialect, when travelling in other Arabic countries.

A world apart; shouldn’t even be called a dialect IMO

I use the word “dialect” because that’s what is commonly accepted, but I don’t like this word in this context. It’s a far cry from dialects as we know them in Europe, such as between my Irish dialect and other ones in English, or Rio Portuguese, or Colombian Spanish compared to other ones.

Generally speaking, these European style dialects are split offs that occurred in the last 500 years or less (and sometimes they incorporate features of a second language).

Modern Standard Arabic though, despite the name, is based entirely on Arabic from the Koran written in the 7th century.

The only major difference is vocabulary, since MSA incorporates new words to fit into the modern world. Grammatically and for most common words though, it’s essentially Arabic that existed over 1,300 years ago, preserved to this day because of the importance of understanding the Koran in its original form.

Despite no formal recognition of “dialects”, and despite teaching of Classical Arabic throughout the ages, the way people speak has indeed naturally evolved. It’s the same way that Latin, which would have been in use formally 2,000 years ago as we see it written even to this day, actually gave rise to vulgar Latin, which itself evolved into French, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese etc.

Effectively, what you are doing when learning MSA with hopes of travelling in the country, is almost as if you were studying Latin to travel in France or Italy.

Cases and completely different words

One key example is how different the grammar is, such as the use of cases (nominative, accusative etc.).

In MSA you add an -u to subjects of sentences, an -i if it’s affected by some prepositions and so on. (Latin also has such grammatical cases, whereas modern Romance languages pretty much never do.) So in MSA you have to constantly think whether a word is the subject, the object, or acted on by a preposition, or you will say it wrong.

This simply doesn’t apply in the Egyptian dialect (and other dialects from what I’m told). In the sentences, “The house is there”, “I put it in the house” or “I like this house”, house is always “bayt”, but would be “baytu“, “bayta” and “bayti” respectively in MSA.

Then there is a host of completely different vocabulary. “How” is “Izzay” in Egyptian Arabic, but “Kayf” in MSA. “Where” is “Fayn” in Egyptian Arabic, but “eyen” in MSA. Tomorrow is “bokra” in Egyptian Arabic, but “3’da” (where 3′ is a sound that doesn’t exist in European languages, mentioned in the video).

Many other basic words are totally different, or if they are similar or even written the same, the differences in vowel pronunciation, and use of particular consonants makes them almost seem like different words.

Words that have the letter ج in them pronounce it “j” (as in jam) in MSA, but a “g” (as in go) in Egyptian dialect (except some loan words and the like). Raag-il and Raajil (man) are pretty different!

Then like many languages, dialects are way more flexible in accepting loan words. Even though technically they should say Faransaewi and Ingilizy for French and English, I’ve noticed that young Egyptians (not older ones mind you) simply say European language names in English (“English”, “French”), and sprinkle heaps of English words into their sentences. You’ll hear that in the video above; this is not for my benefit, but how I’ve heard young Egyptians talking amongst one another.

And I’m told that countries like Morocco do the same a lot with French.

At times I’ve asked them for what the Arabic equivalent is of a very English word they just dropped into an Arabic sentence, and they don’t know!

Even a different writing system!

One of the biggest surprises is that Arabic script itself (which like any phonetic script, can be learned in an afternoon no hassle) is NOT used to represent Egyptian Arabic by many young people.

Text messages, emails, and sometimes even informal speeches are written using the same letters we use in European languages.

The problem is that Arabic script, while perfect for Classical and Modern Standard Arabic, is seriously lacking to accurately describe Egyptian Arabic and other “dialects”. Vowel sounds change, and sometimes a word may be pronounced the classical way, and sometimes it’s pronounced a more Egyptian way. You can show this much more efficiently in Latinized script.

As stated in the video, to replace certain sounds that don’t exist in European languages, you see numbers used a lot. Unfortunately, there is no standardization to this, so you will see it vary a lot depending on who is writing.  But a good overall view of how most people use it is described in this Wikipedia article.

“Languages” or “dialects”?

I hope I’ve emphasised that you really are dealing with different languages here. They are called dialects and not given any kind of official recognition as real languages mainly because each country prefers to have its official language as the one and only Arabic used in the Koran itself.

Anything else is “just a colloquial version, spoken in the street”, which is quite a huge dismissal when you consider Egypt’s population of 80 million, the vast majority of whom may never speak Modern Standard Arabic (even though they will indeed hear it regularly).

Challenging this status quo is none of my business (it’s for political, religious and a whole mess of other reasons that the official language is not the language most citizens of the country speak together), but as a language learner this lack of official status makes it really tricky to learn these languages… (ahem sorry, “dialects”), because there is a huge lack of useful learning material for them.

Most language learning material focuses on MSA. There are two reasons for this: firstly, because it is indeed the “official” language of the country you will visit (as unhelpful as that status may be for practical interaction with most of its citizens).

And secondly because it’s good for marketing to pitch to people that they are learning a language “almost 300 million people speak”, or the “5th most spoken language in the world by native speakers”. These numbers, while reflecting populations of the countries where MSA is official, are actually complete and utter rubbish. Arabic is NOT that big a language, because nobody (except perhaps professors) out of those hundreds of millions actually speaks MSA when out drinking tea with a friend, or spending time with their family, or ordering food etc.

If you wanted to sell a language learning course, it’s easier to make just one to cater to everyone and go with the flow that you’ll be fine using this one no matter where you go. Business-wise, it makes more sense because you’ll sell more copies and production costs will be much lower. But I still think it’s misleading to present MSA as a useful language to learn for travellers.

Then again, if you ask many natives what they think which is more useful between MSA and dialect, I know MSA would get nearly all the votes, because the sentiment of native speakers is that you should learn “proper” Arabic. It’s a sense of academic and religious devotion, rather than practical advice for communicating with people in the country.

It’s an academic language. Let’s call a spade a spade! If you are learning it for academic purposes, then of course most of what I say in this post is irrelevant to you (I’m a traveller, and learning something to speak with locals in the country will always be my bias when deciding how useful something is).

What to do?

OK, so after all that, what is a language learner to do? The point of this post isn’t to tell the world to abandon MSA. It is essential if you want to read anything (apart from emails and text messages, which will be in something like Franco-Arabic between many young people), and formal proceedings will take place in it.

Going back to the title of this post, my suggestion is simple: If you have a spoken priority (and let’s be honest, a lot of us simply don’t), learn a dialect FIRST. Then go on to MSA. Choose that dialect based on where you want to visit.

The grammar of dialects is much less complex in comparison to MSA, so you’ll be able to get into communication faster, and you’ll be able to have chats with anyone you may come across from that country (that includes online), rather than just with teachers who are experienced in speaking MSA. You’ll simply get into the language quicker.

And then when you are comfortable at this, when you go on to study MSA it will be much easier for you. You will already have a flow to speak it, and can get into reading complex texts and understanding formal discussions. Dialect can be a fantastic stepping stone towards MSA, because you can reach a confident spoken level and then everything you start reading is at least somewhat familiar.

I kind of attempted this myself, but to be honest, one of the biggest mistakes I made by far in this project was wasting my time on MSA materials in the early stages. I was using Assimil’s (French) course on MSA, and then tried alternative ones, and found that pretty much everything I was learning in all those courses was irrelevant to my spoken sessions. Most vocabulary and most grammar. I was effectively learning the wrong language.

While I reached a good stage in my first two months with mostly spoken sessions, my technique is generally to go back to study-mode in my final dash to fluency and tweak my grammar and do exercises and the like between spoken sessions so I can speak confidently without the mistakes I had before.

I haven’t ironed out those mistakes because I had no good material to help me do it, as I’ve had in countless other languages.

Hell, even Esperanto and Irish (Geailge) have more material to work with compared to Arabic dialects, and I went for the biggest dialect! It’s incredible when you consider the number of speakers involved.

My suggestions

If you have similar spoken priorities to me then…

1. What I did in my first two months was precisely what I’d suggest you try out yourselves too. This will get you to the stage of being able to converse with someone, but doing so with poor sentence structure and a bunch of grammar mistakes (that don’t hinder communication too much), like I was doing at my two month point.

Start by getting a phrase book, because these do indeed focus on dialect (the great thing is that they cover several dialects, not just Egyptian, so this will work if you are going elsewhere in the Arabic world), don’t distract you with Arabic script and are small enough to consume quickly. Lonely Planet do one for several dialects for instance. (If you speak French, I found Assimil’s de Poche to be very helpful).

And immediately from then, start getting very regular practice with native speakers just from the country you are going to, and make it clear that your priority is to learn the dialect, not MSA. I highly recommend italki (for either free exchanges, or paid lessons) because you can search per country there, rather than get “generic” Arabic lessons.

2. Use Romanized Arabic much more than Arabic script.

This is probably the most controversial piece of advice I’ll give that I know many will disagree on, but if you have a spoken focus, Arabic script is inefficient to represent the words of dialect, especially because of lack of most vowels shown.

So when you are making a note of vocabulary, pick one way to represent sounds not in English (such as in the Wikipedia link above), and learn it that way. If you write to your teacher, type a Romanized version.

All my flashcards in Anki where representing vocabulary using Romanized script rather than Arabic.

Do indeed learn Arabic script though! It’s just a few hours work (more on that in another post) and you are done. But initially, as a traveller you only need this for recognition, such as in signs and menus. Reading novels and newspapers can come later.

3. When you reach a comfortable conversational stage, but still with grammar mistakes, then see if you can find a good grammar explanation just about the dialect, and if possible one that is written in Romanized script so you can process the dialect more efficiently. Lacking this, see if you can find a good teacher that can train you with lots of grammar-focused exercises to do in your spare time, based on the biggest mistakes you are making.

Luckily I’ve finally come across a decent book that I’d recommend for people to try out after lots of spoken practice, and thanks to this I am finally tying up loose ends. It’s kind of technical, but is a huge help for me to speak correctly, so with a bit of practice I can get that final flow I need:

Kullu Tamam

(Literally means “Everything is OK”). It has some problems like an occasional typo, and it’s incredibly dry (no pictures, and the dialogues aren’t interesting) so I definitely can’t recommend it to absolute beginners. But it only discusses dialect, and does so using Romanized script. It gets into technical explanations of why certain things are said in certain ways.

I studied this for a couple of days while in Cairo, and got through it quick enough because of all the previous exposure and familiarity with most words and am now finally starting to speak correctly. I am still hesitating a lot as I think about how to process the words in the right way (and of course slip up occasionally), but luckily I am getting tonnes of practice every day and should reach a much more comfortable level within the next weeks.

A completely free resource, which is both a dictionary and a pretty detailed grammar explanation is Lisaan Masry. Make this your home page if you are intensively learning Arabic! There is also an Android app that lets you download the dictionary database offline, which has been a huge help for me out and about, as limited as it is.

I came across some other highly recommended books for beginner learners, that were indeed about Egyptian dialect, but they were almost always written in Arabic script and this will slow you down too much (both because of lack of familiarity with script to read through it efficiently, and because they don’t represent a lot of the sounds well enough). If you are a beginner don’t learn through a book written just in Arabic script.

With a spoken focus, you can get into reading later, and that’s more suited to an MSA focused approach anyway, because dialect is pretty much never written in script (I’m told that subtitles for children’s TV shows use it for instance).

4. Finally, when you are a confident speaker of the dialect, then start working on MSA. You should already know how to read out words, but get lots of practice to read faster, and learn alternative versions of words you already know that are likely to come up in texts.

By not learning them in parallel, but in a written-only context, you are less likely to mix things up, and will use the correct word when writing and the correct one when speaking dialect.

I’ve started reading online newspapers since I got to Egypt, and am glad I didn’t focus much on reading text in my initial months. I can already order food off menus and follow directions on signs, because I practised individual word reading of Arabic script throughout my learning period, but reading full texts that are effectively in the wrong language is best left until when you already know one of those languages well enough.

….

What a mess!

Well, those are my thoughts on the whole thing anyway. I have no doubts that many people will disagree with this (Learn MSA first! Romanized Arabic is blasphemy! You say “um” in your video, so your Arabic is worthless! etc.), especially if you have different goals in learning your language.

There is never one right way to learn a language, but the advice in this post is what I’d suggest if you have similar goes and uses for your languages as I do.

If anything I’ve written (about MSA etc.) here needs correction, let me know and I’ll apply it.

Otherwise, sImage with nevein 1hare your thoughts on all this in the comments below!

Probably one of the most frequent comments I’ve received on my videos over the last months, usually from people in Arabic speaking countries that are not Egypt, or from elitist academics, all of whom ignored my travel-in-Egypt focus, has been “You should be learning Modern Standard Arabic (MSA)! It’s much better than dialect!”

Now that I’m actually using what I spent months preparing for, in the country itself, I can confirm that learning a dialect is far superior to learning MSA if you plan to speak the language.

MORE


  • WC

    I think anyone who learns (any language) while speaking to natives and/or consuming native media will automatically gravitate towards your advice here. I think it’s really the only option, unless studying textbooks for a language you aren’t using is your idea of fun. (If it is, go ahead! I’m happy for you.) It’s more fun, more engaging, and more useful.

    It moves the “you used slang in a formal situation” mistakes to the early part of your education, but even that isn’t really a bad thing, IMO. It’s going to happen eventually, and it’ll be less abrasive to people if they can tell you’re just starting to learn. If you speak perfectly but use slang when you shouldn’t, they’ll think it’s on purpose.

  • http://amanofnonation.com/ Kevin Post

    “You say “um” in your video, so your Arabic is worthless!”

    I say “um” in English so I guess my native tongue is in fact worthless

  • http://www.MimicMethod.com Idahosa

    Hey Benny, I remember we were talking about this together in Rio. I still can’t believe that people stil have the audacity to look a language-learner in the eye and tell him to learn “standard” over “dialect”. But your comment about the country’s government wanting to declare “Arabic” as their official language sheds A LOT of light on the situation for me now.

    This is topic of “standard” versus “local” is something I plan on exploring a lot in my blog in the future. I actually argue that dialectal, slang, pidgin and mixed languages are actually SUPERIOR to standardized languages, because the more rules you try to impose on the language, the more uptight people become and the less likely they are to “Create” and “evolve” the language naturally as it should.

    I recommend checking out my current blog post, where I talk about Montreal Joual and Franglais and demonstrate a rap song in it. So much Flow!

    Keep fighting the good fight!

    • http://www.fluentin3months.com/ Benny Lewis

      It isn’t audacity. As I said, it’s a mess of political, religious, tradition and many other reasons that people will insist on standard.

      • http://www.MimicMethod.com Idahosa

        Indeed. For western languages it just seems to be a simple question of elitism, but I can imagine how much more complex the situation gets when you mix these factors in. Interesting stuff keep it coming!

  • Michael

    It seems my earlier attempt to leave a comment has failed, grrr…
    I’d say it’s worth one’s time to learn how to read the script. Sure you might see “Franco” Arabic written in texts and email, but what about signs on the street etc.? Also, it’s just really rewarding to be able to do it! Great post, btw, I wish this had been available to me when I first started learning Arabic, it’s thoughtfully written and frank. Btw, I love the mustache! =})

    • http://www.fluentin3months.com/ Benny Lewis

      Yep, as I said, it only takes a few hours to really get a hold of Arabic script. There aren’t that many letters, and reading signs and menus etc. is essential. I wouldn’t read grammar explanations in it though.

      Glad you enjoyed it, and we’ll see if the moustache survives when I leave Egypt!

      • Sara El-Toukhy

        سلام

        I noticed that the links I sent you didn’t go through, so I’ve written a list, please see below;

        Colloquial
        Arabic of Egypt: Complete Course for Beginners (Colloquial Series) by Jane Wightwick and Mahmoud
        Gaafar (16 Apr 2007)

        Kallimni ‘Arabi Bishweesh: A
        Beginners’ Course in Spoken Egyptian Arabic 1 by Samia
        Louis (15 Feb 2009)

        Kallimni ‘arabi: An
        Intermediate Course in Spoken Egyptian Arabic by Samia Louis (20 Apr
        2007)

        Kallimni ‘Arabi
        Aktar an Upper Intermediate Course in Spoken Egyptian Arabic by Samia Louis (15 Jan
        2008)

        Kallimni ‘Arabi
        Mazboot: An Early Advanced Course in Spoken Egyptian Arabic 4 by Samia Louis (15 Feb
        2009)

        Kallimni ‘Arabi Fi
        Kull Haaga: A Higher Advanced Course in Spoken Egyptian Arabic 5 by Samia Louis (15 Feb
        2009)

        Colloquial Arabic
        of the Gulf (Colloquial Series) by Clive Holes (28 Oct
        2009)

        Colloquial
        Arabic (Levantine) (Routledge Colloquials (Paperback)) (English, Arabic)
        McLoughlin, Leslie J ( Author… by Leslie J McLoughlin
        (29 Jan 2009)

        All the best!

        سارة

  • Nada Magdy

    Nevin said a normal person in the street wouldn’t understand Fusha! I’m sorry but that’s just wrong most of “normal” Egyptians would understand it just fine, unless if you’re an Egyptian who never went to school, other than that Fusha should be comprehensible and you should be able to even speak it *might be a little bit broken but still*

    She also said we never use Arabic letters in texting, I know a lot of people use Latin letters but also there are a lot of people *including myself* use proper Arabic script and changing the language setting is easy unless you don’t have Arabic characters on your computer or phone.
    And Benny, you suggested that the Egyptian dialect is an actual language, right? I’m no expert but I’m gonna have to disagree with you, and I think most of Arabic native speakers would disagree with you too. We can’t say that this dialect is a language on its own, no matter how sophisticated, big and widely used it is, at the end of the day it’s just another dialect.
    And I’m not being cocky or anything but Standard Arabic comes first then our local dialect, if it’s the other way around then we’d be missing on a huge part of the culture and arts, Thank you.

    • http://www.fluentin3months.com/ Benny Lewis

      Please don’t misquote. She said that a normal person in the street won’t SPEAK Fusha. This is vastly different to saying they wouldn’t understand it. I have asked people directly and pretty much everyone confirms that if I tried to chat to them in Fusha, they wouldn’t be able to hold up their end of the conversation, although yes, they’d understand me fine.

      I don’t know if she used the word “never”, but the impression I got was that lots of people do it. In her case the settings are easier because she may use her computer in English for other things.

      And you are wrong on a third count. I suggested that dialect is a poor description, and in my view it should count as a language, but officially you are right that it isn’t.

      Please kindly pay attention better before commenting. All 3 of your points are misunderstandings or exaggerations of what was actually said.

      • Nada Magdy

        Oh no, I didn’t misquote, just check the video @ 3:03

        Non Arab viewers who watch the video wouldn’t know that she was just exaggerating and she didn’t literally mean “a normal guy in the street won’t understand Fusha”.
        Even if a lot people wouldn’t be able to hold up a conversation in Fusha, that will be because of the lack of proper education or any kind of education at all. A friend of mine once said: “people not being able to understand Fusha is not proof of the independence of the local dialect”.

        A lot of people who use Latin letters in texting because they think it’s cute, cool and modern thing to imitate Europeans not because the Arabic letters are inefficient or something.

        • http://www.fluentin3months.com/ Benny Lewis

          Fair enough that she said that, although I’m sure she meant taking part in a conversation.

          • Nada Magdy

            Benny, why did you delete some of your comment?! how “my 3 points were either misunderstanding or exaggeration of what was actually said” and how “I should pay attention before commenting!!” You didn’t have to delete that, did you? :/

          • http://www.fluentin3months.com/ Benny Lewis

            You were right about the quote, so it was wrong of me to say you should pay attention, and edited my comment to take that line out.

          • Franck Salameh

            Still, I don’t think it’s an over-exaggeration to say that most people in Egypt “don’t understand MSA.” When you have illiteracy hovering at about 55% in the “Arab-defined” world, it shouldn’t come as a shock that people do not understand MSA. and BL is absolutely spot on in that learning MSA and expecting to communicate with Egyptians and the rest is like learning Latin in Mediaeval Europe and expecting to communicate with the average Parisian or Roman. I wouldn’t say that MSA is useless. But it is definitely not a living spontaneous language. Most importantly, it is NOBODY’s native language. Like Latin, it is a learned, literary, and cultic language, not a functional means of communication.

    • smart mzizo

      I am Egyptian and educated. If`s awkward and very hard for me to speak MSA. And for many people yes of little education can understand. You need alot of work to understand MSA, and even then you will not be able to speak MSA. It`s like asking an Italian to speak latin. There are 40% atleast of Egyptians are illiterate.

      • Adam Alarabi

        I’m Tunisian and I think you’re exaggerating ! an educated Arab person speaks and understands very well MSA because it’s the language of poetry,letters,and almost everything we get in Arab schools from the primary school to college level..

        • Franck Salameh

          Very true. But it’s still NOBODY’s natively spoken language. ALL those who know MSA acquire it as a second language. Some may know it better than others; I may know it better than Benny Lewis; but in the end, it is not my native language just as it is not his.

  • fatma

    While it is true that many use latin script to text and chat in arabic (I do it myself) it is usually only those that went to an english/french school growing up, most of my friends who went to an arabic school still use arabic script even if they are using dialect

  • Georgia

    I studied Arabic at university (MSA) and I agree with you, it’s really not that helpful for understanding people and speaking. Learning a dialect first, then MSA is a good suggestion. I can communicate with people, but it is a struggle to understand some people when they are talking (and after having done a degree in it, you are expected to understand and it’s pretty embarrassing when you don’t) Also its uncomfortable talking to people in MSA. It reveals people’s education level – if they can’t speak to you in good MSA they are ‘outed’ as poorly educated. That’s not really a situation I like being in! I do translation, so MSA wasn’t a waste of time or anything (it pays the bills), but for communication purposes, I think you have learned to communicate waaaay faster using your methods. I think one of the first things I learned was how to say “my mother works for the united nations”. The text books really are terrible! I also agree with you that the dialects are more like different languages. I’m currently learning Turkish, and I have found that Turkish and Azeri are way closer to each other than most Arabic dialects are to each other, yet Azeri is often considered a different language. Whether it is considered a language or a dialect is definitely political.

    • Adam Alarabi

      I’m Arab Tunisian bro, we love when Chinese visitors talk Fusha with us, we understand them well and they don’t find any difficulty or have thoughts like ” what would Arabs think if We spoke Fusha with them ! u know ! guys and girls love it when their lovers send them letters of love written in Fusha.. it’s the language of love and everything beautiful and meaningful..

  • Ahmed Ibrahim

    “Kif int? Int titkellem bil-Malti? Minn fejn int?” means “How are you? Are you speaking Maltese? Where are you from?”

    (wieħed, tnejn, tlieta, erbgħa, ħamsa, sitta, sebgħa, tmienja, disgħa, għaxra)

    These simple questions and “numbers from 1 to 10″ are an example of a dialect of Arabic that became a separate and independent language with heavy loanwords from Italian. Maltese people consider calling their language a “dialect of Arabic” as an insult.
    The opposite in the Arab World, people of any Arab country consider calling any dialect of Arabic a “separate language” as an insult.

    In Malta, they read, write and speak only in Maltese and they never use MSA or the Arabic script.

    Here in Egypt and other Arab countries, when we SPEAK, we only use our local dialects but when we READ, WRITE and STUDY, we do that only in MSA.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ahmad.baubaid Ahmad BaUbaid

    Nice post !

    Really applaud you for learning Arabic. I gotta say, you’re doing quite well !

    I would just like to point out 2 things:

    1) Not everybody uses the Latin script when typing dialectic Arabic. It’s probably popular among the youth but some still use the regular Arabic script. I use it, in fact, with most of my friends and family.

    2) Standard Arabic, while not the choice if you want to be fluent in conversational and everyday settings, is indeed one of the most powerful languages that exist today. If you can master it, you’ll without a doubt have one of the most beautiful, powerful, and expressive languages. It’s also more “pure” than dialectic Arabic. This purity really shows in literary pieces of all sorts.

    This is a language which has over 20 synonyms to say “lion”. This also applies to other words as well. I’m no master of MSA (though I wish I was), but it really is a wonder in itself!

    I’ve read random pieces of English and Arabic poetry, and I can say with confidence that Arabic poetry is far superior and much more beautiful and a large part of it has to do with the language.

    Good luck !

    • Saim Dušan Inayatullah

      According to modern linguistics, any language is just as “powerful” or “expressive” as any other. The idea that some languages or dialects are more expressive than others are based on subjective, extralinguistic criteria usually associated with the culture attached to it. Arabic is seen as “powerful, beautiful and expressive” because the Quran and other Arabic literature are seen aspowerful, beautiful and expressive, not because of anything inherent to the code itself.

      Here’s more on the equality of all languages:
      http://www.polysyllabic.com/?q=navigating/intro/equality

  • http://www.facebook.com/SamuelGendreau0 Samuel Gendreau

    Awesome post Benny! I learned a lot from it, thanks a bunch! Your video intros are really great, may I ask how you make them? Did you get somebody to make the intros for you? I’m curious to know which program is used to make them.

    Cheers!

  • http://www.facebook.com/abdulaziz.alzahrani Abdulaziz Alzahrani

    Modern Standard Arabic is understood in all the Arabian Countries. The dialects are just a variation of the standard Arabic so I think that everyone is capable of speaking the standard Arabic.

    • languagepotato

      let’s try that shall we (i love MSA, but the ‘dialect’ i speak, looks as arabic as french looks italian (if not less)), i’ll speak my ‘dialect’ (which is moroccan arabic)
      nta qolti mni ken hdro darija tqdr t3rf ash ken qolo, nqollek ash 3mlt lbara7 o nta tqlb t-trjmha: lbara7 klit l7ut o 3jboni bezaf.

    • Saim Dušan Inayatullah

      This isn’t true. The modern dialects are derived from the classical Arabic vernacular, not MSA. It’s called “Modern” Standard Arabic for a reason.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000704616791 Edmund Yong

    still, without government support and official status, the dialects will not be well organised and standardized. and things like dialects of dialects itself occur :(
    this makes it even harder to learn dialects as there too many variation.

  • David

    Possibly the most useful article on learning Arabic anywhere.

    Thank you!

  • http://twitter.com/bleakgh Andrew Moorehead

    I do like the Latin analogy. Just imagine if people tried to tell you to learn Latin to go to Spain.

    • Cashmoney

      But if everybody still studied Latin in school in Europe and it was used in speeches and on the news, it would make more sense.

      I don`t think MSA is as different from dialects as Latin is from Spanish though. I could be wrong about that, but I think MSA is quite close to the Eastern dialects like Levant, Gulf, Najdi, and Iraqi. A little less close to Egyptian, and a quite a bit less for Maghrebi.

  • Guest

    Fantastic post. I’m learning ECA at the moment, as well; I’m going to Cairo in February. And I think what you’re doing is great, keep it up! One question: how do you insert Arabic text in your post above???

  • http://www.facebook.com/simon.hall.3781995 Simon Hall

    I think what you’re doing is great, keep it up! I’m learning ECA as well, heading to Cairo in February….one question: do you know a good way to insert Arabic text into posts like yours above??!

  • Patrick

    Hello Benny!

    I am trying to learn Egyptian Arabic but I have a bit of a resource problem. All the material (just as you said in one of your blog posts) seems to only be MSA.

    I was wondering if you could recommend me some resources to learn more vocabulary and grammar.

    Also excellent blog post, a native Egyptian actually once told me that MSA arabic was “boring”, another reason to learn dialect.

  • Crno Srce

    Nice video, Benny. I don’t know any Arabic, so my comment is a bit worthless, but you sounded the business to my untrained ears. Seems good for 4 months.

    You missed out on a 3 month mark video again with this mission – as a couple of the guys who’ve followed your advice have recently shown (Brian and Baron Jon), this checkpoint is one of the most interesting for the mission. It’d be nice if it could be planned in to your next mission to make sure you don’t miss it, but this 4 month video is a decent substitute. I know you want to spend the time to make the vids look nice, so it’s understandable that it can be hard sometimes.

  • Forrest

    My gulf friends all say they speak Arabic badly, I finally began to realize what they ment. They are talking about MSA. Even the guys from the same country but are from different cities laugh at the differences. From what I see I think culture gets in the way of honest views of language. Because Arabic is so closely tied with Islam it is honorable to have MSA as the official language in these countries. Talk to a linguist and they say the languages are different. Talk to most Arabic speakers they call it a dialect.

  • Joe

    Hey Benny, I have been learning another very ‘difficult’ language for about 3/4 months too now. I have to say that from watching this video that our speaking level seems about similar, however your listening level is through the roof… And for me who’s never found the speaking too hard, I find this unbelievably impressive so big props. I can tell that you don’t understand every word, but you are able to follow just abouts it seems and contribute. If someone starts speaking my target language to me at that speed for that long a period at a time, I’m lost. How do you practice listening, just vocab and watching stuff? I know you give a lot of advice about language learning in other posts, but I dunno, I guess I’m just looking for some quick listening advice or motivation. Cheers

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Duncan-Stewart/3405504 Duncan Stewart

    I have to agree with one exception!

    If you speak English and French, then it is better to learn MSA, mostly because everyone in the Arab world speaks one of those three. ( Also to disclaim, I’m not really sure I speak MSA, because I learned it in a village and was told I speak with a Bahraini accent…)

    Also from my experience, you get a lot of respect from Arabs if you speak Quranic Arabic. (But I guess that is elitism? :D )

    I speak all three, and I am never unable to communicate with someone, even Berbers. If I only knew Maghrebi, or Egyptian, I might find it hard in the Levante where they speak French, or in the Gulf where English is prevalent.

    • Forrest

      Duncan, tell me if I understand your point. You get lots of respect from Arabs because you speak MSA but cannot communicate? That is what it looks like you are saying. Isn’t that point Benny is making? Let me know if I misunderstood.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=640995866 Victor Berrjod

    Do Egyptians all understand each other? I imagine Egyptian dialects must be quite diverse.

  • José Guilherme

    did you like the links I send to you, about arabic learning?

  • Craig

    I would like to wholeheartedly agree with the above. I have spent about 3 years studying various dialects (including Arabic, Lebanese/Palestianian, the gulf dialects and Moroccan) as well as MSA. I agree 100% that learning MSA is like a French or Spanish person learning Latin and it really is like everyone in Europe learning Latin just so that they can listen to and read the news. It is wrong that Arabic is classed as one of the most spoken languages in the world, because it is not and these are not dialects – they are languages in their own right (only not being classed as “languages” for religious reasons and pride). Gulf Arabic and Moroccan are as different as Spanish and Romanian.

    To demonstrate these differences, we only need to take one word as an example and compare the languages (I’m sorry but I am not afraid to say the word languages because that is what they are)

    Comparison of the word “now”

    Egypt: Dilwa’ti
    Lebanese/Palestinian: hala
    Other areas of Palestina: Hal’eet/halqeet
    Some areas of Arabia: Alhin/dalheen/daheen
    Iraq/kuweit: Hassa
    Moroccan: Daba
    Algerian: Druuk

    As you can see, for such a simple “everyday” word, it differs drastically in all dialects.
    There are, having said that, many similarities also between some words, but this would be comparable to that of other language families such as the latin or slavic languages (not dialects!!!)

    The problem with learning the dialect is that there is such little material to learn with and once getting past the books that do exist, where do you go?

    There aren’t even any comprehensive vocabulary books for learning the vocabulary of the Arabic “languages”. Why has nobody made an Egyptian vocabulary book covering themes? Many people learning Arabic are actually interested in Egyptian (being the most spoken dialect in numbers), however no material exists to help them learn beyond the basics.

    This is the problem we are faced with. However, if you look at the history of languages, you will see that when a language stops evolving and the people begin speaking other languages (or dialects) that become more and more distant from the original language, that very language begins to die because it becomes archaic and useless.
    This is essentially what is already happening with Modern Standard Arabic. It is becoming like Latin or Sanskrit – an old language that few people speak and that sounds old and of little use. You can keep it alive to some extent by studying it, but when people stop to speak it as their mother tongue, it becomes useless and dies.

    MSA is quickly dying out and is being kept alive for official purposes, the same way that Latin, ancient Greek, Sanskrit all were kept alive for official purposes before becoming completely useless.

    Most Arabs will probably hate me for saying so, but then they should consider that all Arabic languages were born from the same prestigious language that was spoken hundreds of years ago, and why should these languages be less prestigious? Your mother tongue is your most prestigious language.

    In conclusion: If you want to learn Arabic to speak and understand the people, without a doubt you should learn one of the varieties of Arabic such as Egyptian, Lebanese, Gulf, Moroccan or whichever dialect is of interest to the learner.
    The so called “dialects” are the future of Arabic and people will eventually begin writing in them. As far as I am aware, there are already some books written in Egyptian dialect.
    On the other hand, if your aim is to translate Arabic literature or read the news rather than speak, then MSA is the only option unfortunately for now, but things will change. Just look at the history of languages – these changes are part of the nature of languages and things will always change.

  • http://twitter.com/aarongmyers Aaron G Myers

    Great post Benny and great advice.

  • rob.my.language

    A quick opinion question: I have no immediate plans on going to an Arab country very soon, although I eventually plan on it. But I’m not sure which one. So would it be worth my while to study MSA to get a lot of (admittedly academic) vocabulary and focus on reading, and then focus on a dialect when I buy a plane ticket? Or do you think that would be counterproductive since I’m not learning to speak first, only to read and write?

    • Saim Dušan Inayatullah

      I think that would be counterproductive, as all the modern Arabic vernaculars are closer to eachother than any is to MSA. If you don’t have any connection with a specific country (travel plans, immigrant community in your area, friends, music you like, etc.), then I would recommend going with Egyptian because it’s the most widely spoken and understood and also has the most resources for foreigners, and then adapt to whatever country you go to. But if there are Arabs in your area try and learn their variety – in Western Europe it definitely makes more sense to learn Moroccan or Algerian than Egyptian, for example.

  • Ahmed

    There is a lot of mistakes in this article ,more than i am able to point like how you encourage people to use Romanized Arabic which is a big mistake because the only arabs that use it are the arabs how doesn’t have an arabic keyboard and living in a foreign country, and how you compare french and spanish in latin dialect to arabic dialect

    unlike in europe arabs from any country can understand each other at least 80% because the difference between dialect and MSA is only in spelling but the vocabulary is the same and whenever you are writing an article or a letter or a contract or almost anything other than chatting you write it in MSA

  • Chris

    I’ve studied Arabic off and on for the past few years, first with a semester auditing a class at my university and most recently while living in Saudi Arabia. The biggest mistake I made was concentrating only on the alphabet and reading, especially with grammar maven teachers who spent more time concentrating on whether I wrote my Jim/Ha/Kha in a formal way or whether I added the proper suffixes on my nouns. The result was that after almost two years of studying, I could not hold a 5 minute conversation like you are doing in this video. Six months ago, I started using my Bedouin students as a resource and have made more progress in conversational Arabic in that time than all the time leading up to that. Thanks for the good advice, Benny.

  • Kommissar89

    Back in the 80s when I was studying at the Defense Language Institute (Russian) I had some friends who were studying Arabic. It was an 18 month course that consisted of 12 months of MSA and 6 months of the target dialect. My friend Sami, whose parents were Egyptian, spoke fluent Egyptian Arabic at home but could not initially read and write Arabic and he was able to graduate early after completing the MSA portion of the course but most students were required to complete a dialect. I would assume the materials were produced in house as our Russian materials were. Proficiency testing is based on MSA for reading comprehension and target dialect for listening comprehension. That would seem to support what you are saying, you need to know the local dialect to communicate effectively.

  • Dejvo

    I’m sorry Benny, but why can’t we say Arabic has dialects. My friend from Germany can’t understand Schwäbisch, but that doesn’t mean it’s a completely different language. Some dialects are close and some dialects aren’t mutually comprehensible.

  • Dejvo

    P.S. Not everyone is interested in the Egyptian dialect which is the most spoken one with loads of resources. I personally like the Lebanese dialect and unless I find some native speaker all I can do is watch a few Youtube videos and buy a insufficient Spoken Lebanese book. :( So I can either give it up and learn some other dialect or study the MSA in time being )

  • Sharlie4

    I totally agree! I have been learning the Morocaan dialect via fb and an online resource. Nobody in Morocco actually *speaks* Modern standard arabic ,they speak their *dialect* and they write it using european letters!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100005426380600 Rocky Singh

    Iam working in dubai and i really feel helpless when talking to locals and employees most people dont know english can u please help me which arabic language dialect to learn .. i have heard of pimsleur will it help

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100005426380600 Rocky Singh

    can anyone help

  • http://twitter.com/jaydprincess Judi Kaakarli

    Your advice is great, though my only “complaint” is that the different Arabic dialects spoken in different countries should not be considered different languages.
    I am a Syrian American from Michigan. If I were to go to Louisiana, I would find the accent spoken there funny-sounding, though I would understand it. Some of the phrases spoken would be different, but it would still make sense to me. Same thing with England, Scotland, Australia, Canada, etc.
    I have been to Syria, Kuwait, Jordan and Egypt and have been able to communicate with people from all those countries in my Shami accent while they spoke in their respective dialects. I understood them, and they understood me. Like it or not, we all do speak the same language, though some of our vocabulary may be different and we can sound odd to each other. I know, when I speak to Egyptians, I often have to ask them to slow down, but that doesn’t mean that I cannot understand them.
    This comment is so incoherent and I must sound like an uneducated fool, but, real talk, Arabic is one language with several unique dialects.

  • Cashmoney

    I think the value of MSA for conversation is very underestimated. You`re right that no Arab speaks COMPLETELY in MSA, but when speaking with someone with a different dialect they include some elements of MSA into their speech to make it more formal and easier to understand. It`s the same when Scottish people talk to me, they adjust their English enough for us to communicate, not fully using their dialect. Knowing MSA gives you the key for communication between dialects.

    True, to be “fluent” in Arabic you need to be able to speak a dialect well, but you also need to know MSA and get experience negotiating meaning with speakers of other dialects – and gain an awareness of the differences between dialects – enough to be able to bridge the gaps. Without MSA you have about a snowball`s chance in hell of doing that.

    If I was interested only in one particular country, I would learn that dialect first and then start learning MSA later. If I was going to travel through a number of Arabic countries I would learn MSA if possible (though the conversational style learning materials are hard to come back for MSA – but easy for major dialects) and play with it and learn some dialect to mix it with in each country. Though I understand that some people just want to learn for their travels, and not as a serious undertaking – in which case learning Egyptian or Palestinian is probably a good bet.

    I don`t perceive a real big difference between Arabic in the Levant, Iraq, the Gulf, and Arabian peninsula – even in Egypt. You can just change a few things in each area and you`ll be speaking something like the local dialect. Knowing MSA, I don`t find this hard. I don`t understand Moroccan Arabic very well, but I imagine I could improve that with some practice.

  • TheBookLady

    I wish most universities understood this, wallah! I’m having a hard time getting my son evaluated for university because he “only” speaks Kaleeji and Egyptian.

  • TheBookLady

    You are right on with your comments. This is exactly what I’ve found. I know a number of Saudi students through my cousin’s family, who are Homestay hosts (as I now am as of recently). We have gotten particularly close to one in particular, who we now count as family. When I told him I want to learn Arabic this summer as he was headed back to KSA for a few months, he said not to learn MSA yet. I told him the only really good course I could find was in Egyptian (Michel Thomas) and I was worried I wouldn’t be able to understand him and his cousins. He said to go ahead and learn it, and I would find I could understand most of what they say, and he’d help with any vocabulary that was different.

    And he’s right. I’m not even halfway through the course yet, and he jokingly warned a cousin this week to be careful what he says around me because I can understand a lot of what they say. I still have a lot more to learn but I’m glad to have saved myself a lot of trouble by listening to him.

  • Adam Alarabi

    I’m Arab and I assure you that everyone (or let’s say at least 98%) Understands MSA So, you better study it (instead of hundreds of Arab dialects) and the most important reason to study MSA is that you will find every subject written in the Arab World is Written in MSA (daily news papers, books..) A great reason to study MSA first is that You will be able then to understand the different dialects effortlessly.. but if you learn a certain dialect, you will have to do a huge effort to understand the rest of the arab dialects and the MSA

    • http://www.fluentin3months.com/ Benny Lewis

      Understanding MSA and actually being able to speak it are very different things. It’s like if 98% of Spaniards understand Italian. This doesn’t actually mean anything in terms of normal conversations where you have to produce it.

    • Mister Sirloin

      just so you know, there are infinite books on Moroccan dialect in many languages, and even many full dictionaries. i have quite a collection.

    • Saim Dušan Inayatullah

      All languages have grammar rules, even “ghetto English” (that’s a pejorative term by the way, I imagine you’re referring to African-American Vernacular English). Grammar is a set of rules native speakers apply through intuition, what you’re thinking about is a -codified- grammar (a grammar used for a standard language, where the rules have been actively decided on).

  • Arash Azizi

    This article just shows absolute ignorance and philistine-ness over what Arabic is and how it has developed. All your travels doesn’t seem to have made you any wiser.

  • Mister Sirloin

    very interesting. I feel I can comment and agree with you, because I am just about to have finished taking 2 years of Moroccan Darija classes and 2 years of Fusha classes. I would sum it up as follows: the Fusha classes are almost a complete waste of time and extreeemely dull, completely focused on very boring grammar lessons, whereas Darija is a fascinating, living, wonderful LANGUAGE. after 2 years of classes and a trip or two to Morocco, I can say quite a bit and maintain a pretty decent conversation (as can most of the other learners I know at the same level), and the learners in Fusha all seem bored, tired and can’t even get a basic sentence together. plus, all the effort is for nothing, since nobody will ever speak to them in this pretty but ancient tongue. i try to get excited about Fusha, but it seems like the more i do, the more i just find disappointment. whereas every encounter with Darija is fun and rewarding. i only recommend Fusha for people working in a high-powered position (diplomats? media?), the religious and masochists :) just my semi-informed viewpoint. maybe once i get further in Fusha i will grow to like it more.

  • Bloater

    Interesting. I’ve always found Arabic the most frustrating of the languages I’ve tried to learn for the very practical reasons you describe. The problem is, if you’re going to be fluent, you’ve effectively got to learn two languages. You at least need to be able to read MSA.

    I tried the same approach as you when I worked in Morocco ages ago. The problem is that it only took me so far. At the time, there were only two books on Moroccan Arabic and once I’d read them, I was stuck because I didn’t know Arabic script. With another language, I would have started reading newspapers or something at that stage.

    I’m not sure I agree that you can learn the script quickly. I learned Cyrillic and Greek script in about a fortnight each. I don’t speak much of either Greek or Russian but if I’m going down a motorway on a bus, I can read the names of the towns and villages before we’ve actually passed them. Arabic script is much more foreign and I still struggle with it although I’ve spent far more time on it. I can actually read newspaper articles reasonably well but I just have to concentratemuch more. You can learn the basics of Arabic script quickly enough, as you say, but, for me at least, being really comfortable with it, so I can recognise a word upside down, say, the way I do in English, is taking ages. I’m not sure I’ll ever manage it. You don’t realise it, but when you’ve been reading since you were a toddler you recognise whole words, not just individual letters, when you’re reading. Learning Arabic script has made me appreciate what it must be like for someone trying to learn to read for the first time as an adult.

    In other words, to me,if you want to be remotely fluent at Arabic (which I’m still not!), you need to start with the script early because otherwise you’ll just get frustrated when you’ve finished your Egyptian Arabic phrasebook.

  • alwathek qotob

    قالت له من خلال الفيديو إنه لو كلم أحداً باللغة الفصحى فلن يفهمه. ولكن العكس هو الصحيح. لأنه أينما ذهبت وتكلمت بالعربية الفصحى فسيفهمك الجميع. فالفصحى أفضل حينما تسافر في البلاد العربية. لأن الفصحى واحدة أما العاميات فكثيرة، ويصعب على الأجنبي أن يتعلم كل العاميات، والأسهل أن يتعلم الفصحى. اتمنى أن يكون النقاش مع إنسان متخصص في مجال اللغة الفصحى واللغة العامية. :)

  • Martin D Weiss

    Loved your post! But isn’t Levantine Arabic (Palestinian, Syrian, Lebanese) considered something akin to a gold standard of the spoken language?

  • MH

    Actually, learning MSA Is useful! because it’s the official language and it is understood by many of Arab population, even if they didn’t speak MSA They still can understand maybe 50% of it!

    And Learning MSA is a useful skill that you can put it in a CV and find a job in translating or journalism or any job that requires speaking Arabic!

    and If you know how to speak MSA it would be much easier to learn a dialect, because the Arabian dialects came from MSA after all! and 80% of the vocabulary in all dialects are the same and based from the MSA.

    And If you are going to learn a dialect first, it would be only useful in speaking with locals in a certain Arab country! and it’s not a real skill! and if you tried to learn another dialect it would be hard and more time consuming because you don’t have the “common ground” that connects between the two dialects!

    and to be honest, Egyptian people got some kind of difficulty with the MSA, the Egyptian accent is really heavy and it’s hard to them to speak MSA! Their dialect is special its placed in a category of it’s own in Arab dialects! And Egyptians feel really comfortable in their dialect they even made an Egyptian Wikipedia! (other Arabs use the official Wikipedia!). So if you are travelling to Egypt then you should learn their dialect, but if you will travel to other Arab countries I don’t think you will face a big problem in speaking MSA because it’s the official language of the country and most Arab Muslims Can understand it very well! But it’s always recommended to learn the local dialect of a country that you’re planning to stay in!

    But you can’t say that learning a dialect is better than learning MSA! and honestly, I believe you article is not accurate!

    Sorry for my bad English!

  • James Crowley

    Which standard does the media, i.e radio and television, newspapers use in the Arabic speaking world? For example does Al-jazeera use MSA? The situation as described by the posters here seems similar to the problems in Italy. What is called Italian, the national language, is actually the dialect of florence, which became the literary standard very early on. Untll quite recently most italians spoke their own dialects which were sometimes mutually unintellible. It is my understanding that since the introduction of radio and television, a majority of Italians now speak only the national language and all Italians understand and speak it.

  • fokkertism

    If you learned MSA, would you be able to understand Maltese? I know Maltese is derived from Arabic.

    • http://fluentin3months.com/ Brandon Rivington

      Good point! However, Maltese has been so influenced by Italian that it’s rather broken away from it’s Arabic roots in many ways. Grammatically, it’s still very Arabic, but you can’t understand it simply by knowing Arabic.

  • Areej

    I have few comments about this:

    1. When I learned English I didn’t learn British-English (England-English, or Irish-English or Scottish-English) or even American-English, because, English is English as a language and a dialect could never become a language. but they gave me a lesson about the difference between British-English and American-English maybe this should be added in learning Arabic difference between dialects.

    2. Modern Standard Arabic isn’t spoken in everyday conversations (thou if you speak it it is understood perfectly) but MSA is used in massive manner in skills like reading, grammar, and writing (documentations). while understanding dialect would benefit your ‘making friends skills’ but it would not benefit you in reading (unless you consider IM and chatting room a form of reading) in all the schools,institutions, the literature, Arabic companies and organizations, governmental facilities, they use Formal Arabic because dialects are not a complete systematic method of speaking or writing that you can depend on through time.

    3. I have to say I didn’t like the allusion that MSA is used religiously.
    Arabian is an ethnicity. Arabic existed and Arabian individuals were proud (some of us still are) of their language long before Islam came to the Arabian Peninsula. So speaking Arabic well is a form of identity expression.

    4. You are overestimating the importance of dialect. You have to know If you learned any Arabic dialect you can never say you know Arabic language because, you didn’t learn the essentials of the language reading, writing, vocabulary, grammar, literature …etc

    5. Travelling doesn’t make an expert in a language. An Egyptian dialect speaker understand Gulf dialect speaker and vise versa, why? The MSA is the mother the common theme because the rules and the standards are the same.
    Why leave the main for the secondary?

    6. MSA is a unified tongue between 22 Arabian countries. EVERYONE understand it and they CAN speak it because it is a simplified version of fancy old Arabic but unfortunately the youth (btw, I am young) are influenced by the west. My question what about the white dialect << This is an Arabic dialect meant to be unified dialect between Arab?

    7. Arabic isn't like latin for English, French, Spanish etc. Aramaic is like latin to Arabic, Hebrew, etc. So the comparison isn't right. If the door is being opened to dialects it would never be closed because, even if you learned the country dialect there is still the different regions dialects in every country. Why go through all that?

    Conclusion: I think the right question would be why are you learning Arabic?

    A) To communicate with a certain Arabian group (Egyptians) by all means learn Egyptian (or any) Dialect.

    B) If you learning Arabic to learn a Language, culture, and history stick with MSA.

    You have to know learning dialect after learning MSA is much easier but the opposite isn't easy at all. Also, the resources would be greatly limited in learning dialects, unless you are planning on staying in the streets 24/7.

    My Advice learn MSA and then spent 3 months with any dialect of your choice. It would benefit you on both sides.

  • Sarah

    Firstly, well done for your big achievement! I am a native speaker (Egyptian) and can understand what you’re saying here. I think it’s very impressive that you can understand what fluent speakers are saying to you.

    I agree with your advice that people wanting to learn Arabic should learn a dialect first, however, I strongly disagree that dialects differ to the point where they may be considered different languages! Despite never having set foot in Syria/Lebanon or having any friends from there I can understand their dialect and watch Lebanese soaps etc. The grammar structure and a great number of the words are the same. Even the words/sayings that are different are well known… Turkish soaps that have been dubbed over in Syrian Arabic are very popular in Egypt and Egyptian songs etc. are popular across the Arab world.

    As you have a limited knowledge of the language (limited vocabulary etc.) it will be harder for you to see that. As your Arabic improves then you will see that there is actually a lot of crossover between all dialects because they all come from the same root source.

    Maghrebi Arabic, however, I cannot understand at all! However, most of the Moroccans I’ve met can speak a version between MSA and another non-maghrebi dialect and we can understand each other just fine.

  • Philip Jones

    Thank you. I have long classified Arabic as “the most frustrating language I have ever studied” and it is nice to know I am not alone. When I was first studying Arabic I was using several different resources – one teaching Egyptian, one teaching MSA, another Syrian, and another Moroccan. It frustrated me that the systems varied so much in the vocabulary they taught. It wasn’t until later that I realized that “Arabic” was a lot like salsa dancing. Everyone claims they dance “salsa” but everywhere you go there is a different style. It is a pain that every time you find a new “Arabic” resource you have to figure out which flavor of Arabic it actually is.

  • Rahmana Mary

    You spell the Qur’an “Koran”?
    This is surprising, given you’re such a linguist.

    • http://fluentin3months.com/ Brandon Rivington

      It’s a perfectly acceptable spelling in English.

      http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/koran?s=t

      • Rahmana Mary

        No, I don’t think so. In English, the Q Is more gutteral than the K. In Arabic, Qur’an is spelled with the lettet Qaaf (ق), not Kaaf (ك) (these letters are basiclly interchangable with Q & K).
        When we transliterate things from different languages, we spell it phonetically. Qur’an is not pronounced “Koran” in Arabic, so should it be spelled that way?
        This is kind of like the people that spell Muhammad “MoHAMmad”.(These people like to put an emphasis on the ‘Ham’, ironiclly.)

        • http://fluentin3months.com/ Brandon Rivington

          In Standard English, there are no guttural consonants. In Arabic, there obviously is, and spelling a word with a ق rather than a ك (or vice-versa) would sound very different to an Arabic speaker’s ear. But in English, there is no such distinction. I’d also like to point you to a very well known book for learning classical Arabic. Pay attention to the title ;)

          http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Koranic-Classical-Arabic/dp/0936347406/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1401024939&sr=1-1&keywords=koranic+arabic

          • Rahmana Mary

            “In Standard English, there are no guttural consonants.” I know that, but we can agree that the Q sounds different from the K. to some extent. I’m not sure what that is called, so I just said guttural (sorry, I should know what it’s called).

            Okay, I still don’t agree with you. Growing up reading ‘Qur’ans’ and learning Arabic script, pronunciation, and calligraphy in grueling Qur’an classes that Muslim children are subjected to, ‘Koran’ just looks so wrong. T T.
            Granted, the teacher never taught any Romanization in these classes. I possibly would have been hit with whatever he had in his hands (Magazines, Cd cases, random sticks) if I asked. Had a bad temper.

            I don’t think he knew any Romanization. But anyway, I stand that if Qur’an is written with a ق in a Arabic, it should be Romanized with the next best thing in English, the Q. And no, there is no O sound after the Q. I really don’t know where you get this “Koran” from. Smh.

          • http://fluentin3months.com/ Brandon Rivington

            I just want to preface that I agree that I prefer spelling it with a Q and a U. That being said, with the English “qu” combination coming out like “kw”, I can see why using a K and an O became used. Think of “Quebec.” Natively, it’s pronounced “kay-beck.” Among English speaking non-Canadians, it’s more like “kwuh-beck.”

            Like I said, I prefer it with the Q and U. However, it’s only recently becoming common to spell it so (at least in North America). Either way, both spellings are technically correct, preferences aside.

          • MarthaM

            In English, Q is phonetically identical to K. Absolutely no difference in pronunciation. Koran is a common way of spelling the English word Koran. That is, it’s not an attempt at writing Arabic; it’s simply writing the name of the book as it exists in English. 200 years ago, it was called “the Alcoran” in English (Thomas Jefferson, among others, referred to it that way). Now it’s often called “the Koran.” If you prefer a spelling that is closer to phonetic representation of Arabic, that is your choice; many people do. But many English speakers instead prefer a spelling that fits better into standard English spelling conventions, since we’re not trying to write Arabic here, we’re writing English.

          • Rahmana Mary

            If Q is phonetically identical to K, why is Koran closer to standard English conventions than Qur’an?
            I’m not arguing against your right to spell it ‘Koran’ but I didn’t follow that, sorry.

          • http://fluentin3months.com/ Brandon Rivington

            English tends not to use ‘qu + consonant’ except for in loan words. Also, ‘qu’ as we use it in English is a historical trait. Except for more modern loanwords, all the words in English that have ‘qu’ in then came in from Norman French; it doesn’t occur in any of the original Germanic vocabulary.

            Similarly, English doesn’t have apostrophes in the middle of words because we don’t mark glottal stops in writing as is done is Arabic. (Of course we use apostrophes for contractions, but that’s unrelated to this.)

          • MarthaM

            It’s a good question. Let me see if I can clear it up. In English, the letter combination “qu” is normally used to represent the sound combination /kw/. (I think someone else here has already pointed that out.) And the apostrophe is used to mark contractions and possessive forms, and is not used to represent any kind of sound at all (in words like “don’t” and “Sally’s” the apostrophe tells you nothing about pronunciation — if you just hear the words spoken, for instance, you can’t hear where the apostrophe is supposed to go, because the apostrophe doesn’t represent anything having to do with sound). So the written representation “Qur’an” would map onto normal English conventions as /kwran/ or maybe /kwiran/, with an additional symbol thrown in that has no meaning in English in this context. It makes sense only if you’re trying to connect the English word to the Arabic word, so basically you’re writing a bizarre and confusing spelling *not* to represent English pronunciation in a straightforward way, but as a nod to another language. In terms of how English speakers actually pronounce the name of the book, “Koran” spells it out very accurately, representing each sound with the default symbol that English would use for that sound, so that even someone who had never heard of the book before would probably know instantly how to pronounce the name (how to pronounce it in English, that is).

  • http://yuliyah.wordpress.com/ Yuliyah Berlin

    You are a great inspiration and give really helpful advice. Keep up the good work!

  • Cashmoney

    It really depends how much time and work you want to put in, and what your goals are. If you are planning to visit one particular area and that`s your main interest, then learn the dialect. However, if you have a fascination with the Arab World and you want to learn to communicate (at least to some extent) in all Arabic countries, then you need to learn MSA — at least to an intermediate level. You also need to learn a dialect, and Egyptian is a good choice, but MSA will help you bridge the gap between dialects.

    Bridging the gap between dialects is the real use of MSA in communication. Nobody speaks MSA per se, but they do adjust their speech to include more MSA mixed in with their natural speech to make themselves easier to understand to speakers of other dialects. They don`t speak with case endings, but they do mix in MSA grammar and vocab.

    Whether or not you bother learning enough MSA to do that depends on how much you want to learn Arabic in general. One benefit of learning a dialect like Egyptian is that it`s just way more fun so you`re more likely to keep studying. MSA can be boring and demotivating.

  • ali

    hi benny come to iran please it would be a pleasure for me to see you :D . come to Iran , karaj (name of my city) and i’ll find you and invite you to our house .

  • Jack Fang

    his thing works

    one month of me with arabic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFlq4WLaDcg

  • Cat

    Ohh gosh, I have to disagree. I have seen too many classmates struggle trying to go from dialect to MSA; I think it’s much easier to go from MSA to dialect, and I’m very happy I at least got the foundations in MSA before I started speaking 3amiyya! It’s way easier to subtract grammar, simplify pronunciation, and add slang than it is to add grammar and syllables, then bash your head on the desk because you can’t figure out which words are just slightly altered from MSA and which are only found in dialect. By not learning the two versions in parallel, these classmates of mine were MORE likely to mix up the two,

    I also believe that learning MSA first and then dialect will make it easier to understand a variety of dialects more quickly – rather like studying Latin will help you learn Romance languages, since that is the source. Except that with Arabic, the difference between MSA and dialect is not nearly as distorted (on average) as between Latin and the Romance languages…. AND you still need to know if it you ever want to listen to the news or read.

    If your only goal is to have conversations with Arabic-speaking people, then Benny’s advice is excellent. If you EVER want to learn MSA, I recommend learning at least the foundations of MSA first, then gradually morphing into the dialect of choice, or as close as you can get to the “white Arabic” (a way people of different Arabic countries speak with each other, attempting to use the words from dialect that are most widely understood amongst the different varieties). This way you can actually speak on the streets. As you add vocabulary, try to ask and note whether it’s the same as MSA, slightly altered, or not at all related to MSA. It takes a bit more input up front, but once you do decide to tackle MSA it won’t be half as hard as if you only learned dialect from the start.

    Confession: When I speak it’s a blend of mostly Saudi dialect, a bit of leftover Syrian, and then MSA fills in what gaps it can. It’s not so clean and tidy but I can understand most of what is said to me and when I speak I’m understood, at least with Syrians and Saudis. When I traveled to Egypt (back when I only knew Syrian dialect and some MSA to perhaps a combined A2 level), I was completely lost at first; however, after learning perhaps ten key words and characteristics that were common and particular to Egyptian dialect, I was able to get by with the Egyptian-Syrian-MSA mix.

    I suppose I am not so concerned about mixing MSA and dialects, as like you say the primary goal is to get communicating, and quickly (and not have little Arabic kids cover their ears when you talk because you “talk funny :-).” However I do believe learning some fundamental MSA at the start.

    Arabic children listen to TV programs in standard Arabic (most kids’ shows are broadcast in MSA) and hear dialect in the world around them. I guarantee that there’s a significant portion of five-year-olds who can speak MSA more naturally than their parents. Why can’t we benefit from learning them in partial tandem too, at least from a comprehension perspective?

    I know actually speaking MSA again would be tough, but since I already have the foundations of grammar, vocabulary, and the more common ways it morphed into dialect, I doubt I will have as miserable an experience as my only-dialect-speaking classmates had.

    My absolute favorite resource out there is “Easy Arabic Grammar” by Jane Wightwick and Mahmoud Gaafar. It really is what the title says; very clear explanations of Arabic grammar followed by concise exercises that teach the concept without tiring you out. The explanations are all in English, and they really hit on the essential points of Arabic. The Arabic is transliterated into the Latin alphabet at least for the introductory chapters (I agree that it’s too much for beginners to read in Arabic straight away – even though I knew the alphabet it took months of work to be able to read with any sort of speed). Highly recommended!

    Also, my Gulf friends and in-laws and my Syrian and Jordanian friends post on facebook and text almost entirely in Arabic script, when they are not directing a message at their English-speaking network. My Egyptian friends seem to post with the latin alphabet more frequently.

  • Cò Quay

    hi, i’m learning Standard Arabic, and i want know more about التواصل بين الثقافات ( means cultural in communication, what specials and differents between arabic and other language, like English or st … maybe what shouldn’t tell with Arabs coz it’s nomal in your language but impolite to Arabs)coz i think it’s is the most important things when u want 2 learn how 2 speak and work with Arabs. Do u have any advise for me ? books or st relate to this topic. Thanks :*

  • RevBill

    For an alternate point of view check out Learning Arabic with Maha on YouTube. Maha is a vibrant Palistinian woman who speaks Arabic, Hebrew, English and Italian. She strongly recommends learning Modern Standard Arabic. I have spoken to Arabs via Skype to residents of many Middle Eastern countries including Morocco, Egypt, Sudan, Syria, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia. All of them speak Modern Standard Arabic with me. If you are sure you are going to speak Arabic only with people from one Middle Eastern country and don’t care about reading books, newspapers, or understanding the news on television, follow Benny’s advice. Otherwise focus first on MSA.

  • marcos

    Benny, why don`t you date your posts?

  • Atrees

    Hi Benny!. I was asked by one of my non-Arab friends who was learning Arabic in college whether it was better to learn dialect or Standard Arabic. I always say Standard Arabic, but I wanted to see what others on the net had to say about it, and I came across your site. Although I disagree (I think Standard is the way to go), this is a very interesting article nevertheless. I applaud your attempt to learn Arabic and it is clear you have done quite a bit of research about it. Having to learn a second-language myself, I understand the frustration many go through, as I had to go through the same thing at one point. I am also very similar to you in many ways. Reading your biography, you are an Electrical Engineer. I recently graduated from college with an engineering degree also, so I’m a technical minded person like you. Linguistics isn’t my specialty either. However, I have many points where I disagree with you on. Of course, I’m a native speaker of the language (from Syria), but I still believe I can provide some insight. Here are some things I agree and differ with you on:

    1. I agree that if you want to learn Arabic academically or religiously, Standard Arabic is the way to go. However, Standard Arabic is the best if you want to travel across the Arab world too. Yes, if you are just looking to go to Egypt or if you have ties to Egypt (such as family origin, etc.), then you should learn Egyptian. Without loss of generality, this applies to all Arabic countries (if your ties are to Morrocco, learn Moroccan etc.). If you have a specific country you want to travel to, then learn that country’s dialect. However, if you are looking to travel across the Arab world, then Standard Arabic is much better for two reasons. I. By learning a Standard Arabic, you are more likely to understand a random Arabic dialect than you would by learning a dialect not by that country. For example, if you learn Egyptian, you are not very likely to understand a Syrian, and vice versa. If you learned Standard Arabic, you would be more to capable of doing so as there is a direct connection between Standard Arabic and other dialects. There is a direct connection between Standard Arabic and Egyptian as well as one between Standard Arabic and Syrian, but there is no direct connection between Syrian and Egyptian. II. Especially as a foreigner, it would be really hard for someone who doesn’t speak the dialect you learned to understand what you are saying, compared to had you learned Standard Arabic. Even though I could understand what Nevin was saying, there were many areas where I had to look at the translation of what you were saying. As a Syrian, I don’t understand every word an Egyptian says, but I can understand the context. When a foreigner uses Egyptian, it is that much harder considering they might not speak it fluently and have a thicker accent. When I hear foreigners speak Standard Arabic, it is much easier for me to understand them as I can make valiant guesses as to what they are trying to say based on the context. When they speak a different dialect, I can’t do that as easily. I have to concentrate really hard to understand what my Tunisian friend is saying when he speaks to me in their dialect, let alone if a foreigner tries to use it.

    2. You are not exactly right in saying that most Arab natives don’t speak or know Standard Arabic very well. I think you are saying this because you are basing your knowledge on what you experienced in Egypt. With all due respect to my Egyptian friends, their country suffers from a higher degree in illiteracy than most of the rest of the Arab world. Egypt’s illiteracy rate is 26%, and that’s based on the literal definition of illiteracy (i.e. can’t read and write). There are some who can barely read and write, who are not considered as a part of that 26%, meaning that realistically the number is much higher. This is due to the huge population of Egypt combined with a lot of poverty. Classes are overcrowded with 60 students per class, so many students don’t get the attention they need. Some Egyptians get to high school unable to read and write. This is not their fault, it is the education systems’ fault. You will find many Egyptian academics with PhDs because of privileges while others can’t recite the alphabet. However, in most Arab countries, I believe you will find that most can speak, read, and write in Standard Arabic if they so chose. Within the past 15 years, we are now seeing many kids as young as four years-old are being able to speak Standard Arabic across the Arab world, even though they haven’t even learned the alphabet, because cartoons are now all in Standard Arabic (except some cartoons in Egypt). Even though I’m not a liberal arts or linguistics minded person, I consider myself as fluent in Standard Arabic as I do in Syrian Arabic. I have an interest in philosophy, and because I’ve learned philosophy in Standard Arabic, I sometimes have a hard time speaking about Philosophy in Syrian Arabic, and have to resort saying some things in Standard Arabic.

    3. You said that Arabic has been preserved in its original form because of religious reasons, and this is true. However, the Arabic grammar is not based off the rules of the Quran, but rather the opposite. It is the Quran which was based off the rules of Arabic which existed before the Quran was revealed. However, you are right, there is no major difference between Classical Arabic and Modern Standard Arabic. In fact, in Arabic we call both of them Fusha. MSA has much more vocabulary, but it is essentially the same. There are some grammar rules in Classical that are obsolete nowadays, but for the most part, anyone who speaks and knows MSA can easily understand Classical Arabic. I usually just say Standard Arabic (without the Modern in front of it).

    4. You said that Standard Arabic to Egyptian/Syrian/Morroccan/etc.dialects is like Latin is to French/Italian/etc. languages. I’ve also heard some compare Standard Arabic and Arab dialects to that of Shakesperian English and modern English. Many Arabs make these comparisons also. You say that they ‘evolved’ from Standard Arabic to the form we hear them today. However, these comparisons are not correct, believe it or not. It’s not like Latin where countries spoke the language and then it diverged into these many languages. Other than parts of the Gulf, most regions of the Arab world never actually spoke Standard Arabic ever. In the Levant for example, when the Arabic language spread to that area, the Levantines started speaking a mix of Syriac Aramaic with Arabic. What is today Syrian Arabic, is basically an Arabic mixed with the old Syriac language. Similiary, what is today Iraqi is Arabic mixed with the old Mesopotamian and Chaldean languages, and you can say that about all regions of the Arab world (Egyptian= Coptic + Arabic , Moroccan = Berber + Arabic, etc.). Also, through interactions, Arabs have slightly affected each other’s dialects, and that’s why even Hijazi Arabic isn’t the same as Standard, although it is definitely the closest. Believe it or not, most Arabic speaking regions sound closer to Standard Arabic today than they ever have been, especially in the past 100 years. This is due to higher literacy across the Arab world. Jordan, for example, had a literacy rate of only 33% just 70 years ago, whereas now it is over 90%.

    5. You mentioned the different cases in Arabic and how dialect doesn’t have this. It’s true that dialect doesn’t have it, but that’s what makes dialect more ambiguous and vague than Standard Arabic. In dialect, you have to speak in Subject-Verb-Object in order for your sentence to be understood, because of the lack of cases. In Standard Arabic on the other hand, you can pick between in V-S-O (preferred) and S-V-O, and you can even switch it up from there. This is because the cases will leave no doubt what is the subject, the object, etc. However, most of the time, endings and cases aren’t even read by Arabs. For example, for the sentence

    أريد أن أذهب إلى السوق
    ‘I want to go to the store.’

    Most Arabs would just read it as ‘ureed an athab ila as-souq’- instead of- ‘ureedu an athaba ila as-souqi’. However, any literate Arab should be able to read the cases no problem. I certainly am no linguist and I have no issue telling what the case is. Although, there are many instances where cases are important, so you can’t just ignore them. For example, consider the sentences:

    هذا صاحبُ البيتِ الجميلُ
    hatha sa7hibu ul-bayti ij-jamilu

    هذا صاحبُ البيتِ الجميلِ
    hatha sa7hibu ul-bayti ij-jamili

    The only difference between the sentences is one says ij-jamilu and the other says ij-jamili. The case of the last word is the only difference between the two. However, these sentences mean two different things. The first one says ‘This is the beautiful owner of the house’ whereas the second one says ‘This is the owner of the beautiful house’. In Syrian, for example, the way we would say this is: هادا صاحب البيت الحلو (hada sa7eb albait al7ilu) and it is unknown whether you were talking about the beautiful owner or the beautiful house, because dialect doesn’t have this specificity. That’s why cases are important, and this is one of the exact reasons why Standard Arabic is much more expressive than is dialect.

    6. Finally, your thought that Arabic script isn’t used to write in dialect is completely false. Being a young person myself, most of what I encounter and communicate with in dialect via Facebook, Youtube, WhatsApp, etc. is using Arabic script. It may have been true 10 years and maybe even 5 years ago that Latin was used more often, but with the rise of smartphones, this is no longer the case. It used to be hassle because in order to switch from English to Arabic keyboard, it meant you’d have to go to the settings every time. Now, switching keyboards on a phone is just a click away. Also, it is not true that Latin is better at communicating in dialect than Arabic script. That’s exactly why they need the extra numbers in Latin as you were talking about, because it is not expressive of all the alphabet. Even for different sounds, it’s much easier to use Arabic. For example, we Syrians don’t really pronounce the ق. We pronounce it more like a hamza ء. However, we still write the word بطاقة even when speaking in dialect even though we would read it as ‘bita2a’ and not ‘bitaqa’. Similarly, Egyptians still write ج such as in the word جمال even though when reading it on Facebook they would say ‘gamal’.I personally hate it when one of my friends writes in Latin, because I have to make much more of an effort to understand it. It is also very hard when a non-Syrian writes in their dialect of Arabic, but when they write in Latin, I usually can’t even decipher what is being said (it is different when they say it compared to when they write it).

    Anyway, I hope I provided some perspective at least! Sorry for the long
    post.

  • Mayar Magdi

    this is just not true ! when you have all the tv news progs and news
    papers in msa and islamic preaches that most ppl attend every friday and most ppl listen to quran on a regular basis ..too saying that msa is a ” different “language is that is only educated ppl understand is pure ignorance..i think any 14 year old kid who goes to school can understand u perfectly also saying that قطة qeta is different in msa and in egyptian because the slight pronunciation difference is also not acorrect thing to say .. i can understand learning a dialect first for listening to tv material and songs and keeping it fun .. but if you want to communicate in ALL arabic countries and perfectly understood dialects can’t take u that far ..
    **ppl don’t liike convs in msa because they’re not used to it not because they can’t
    ** using english letters to write words does exist but in about 10% of the SOCIAL MEDIA content only and much much more ppl find it annoying to read
    so msa or a dialect ? i say if you’re learning abroad do msa and add alittle dialect maybe after a year or so

  • MikoMasr

    I couldn’t agree more with everything you wrote, except your idea that MSA and 3ammeya are different languages. I really don’t think it’s the case, rather they should be seen, I think, as different registers reflecting different degrees of formality within the same language.
    This may not seem obvious to native speakers of English, which nowadays has become quite homogenised in terms of formal vs. informal English: pretty much everyone in the 21st century speaks ‘informal’ English. In other languages such as latin languages AND Arabic, these different language registers are very much preserved. It would be easy to produce a formal speech in French or Spanish or Italian that uneducated native speakers would not understand at all. In that sense, Arabic is no exception.

    Apart from that point, I completely agree with the rest, and I did the same as you in terms of learning priorities. In Egypt, I used to hang out with extremely proficient US students of MSA who could barely get by in daily life because they had no idea that 3ammeya was so prevalent and MSA nonexistent on the ground.