It’s time for a new 3 month language mission!
Since I started the blog about a year ago, I’ve learned pretty good Czech in 2 months, convinced some Brazilians that I was a Carioca, got by in Thai, and just recently passed 4/5 of one the hardest formal examinations in German.
So now it’s time to take on one of the toughest challenges yet: Conversational Hungarian in 3 months!
Hungarian: a non-Indo-European language
Before the Chinese/Japanese etc. learners jump on me for lazily taking on another “European” language, there’s something you should be aware of…
Hungary may be situated in Europe, but its language has almost nothing in common with any of the many European languages surrounding it (apart from a distant relationship to Finnish/Estonian)!
Many even think of Hungarian as being among the hardest languages in the world. One way a speaker of other European languages could perhaps come to that conclusion is that it is not an Indo-European language.
This basically means that English/French etc. have more in common with Romanian, Polish, Swedish, Lithuanian, Sanskrit and Persian than they have in common with Hungarian. Not just the very occasional vocabulary outside of direct family branches, but also the sentence structure can be somewhat familiar in these languages. It doesn’t make your job a huge amount easier, but at least it gives you some sense of familiarity, and I found this when learning Czech.
Apart from rare loan words, Hungarian seems to show nothing in common with its neighbours! Luckily it uses the Latin script (but so do Swahili, Turkish and Vietnamese…), but unluckily it seems to pack enough grammar into its sentences to make your head spin. Forget German’s four grammatical cases, or Russian’s six – Hungarian nouns can have up to eighteen cases!
I’m certainly going to miss prepositions - in, at, to etc. since these seem to get merged into the word as a “postposition” as one of many ways that Hungarian can produce extremely long words such as “megszentségteleníthetetlenségeskedéseitekért“.
It’s a phonetic language, but it still has some things that will take some getting used to! ‘s’ is the ‘sh’ sound and ‘sz’ is the ‘s’ sound (the opposite of Polish), and the ‘g’ in the name of the language itself, magyar, is pronounced like a d!
Sound intimidating enough yet?
3-month mission: conversational Hungarian
I got all of the above information just from the Wikipedia article on Hungarian this afternoon for the sake of providing a summary. I am starting to learn the language from scratch as of today.
The only word in Hungarian I’ve learned so far is “Szia” (“hi”, pronounced see-ya apparently). So yes, this is absolutely from scratch with no similar or even distantly related language to act as my crutch.
My target is to reach conversational level in the language by mid-October. My mission is to take the intimidating message of the above paragraphs and to turn it around completely to find out what’s easy about Hungarian, to the point where I can effectively communicate in social situations with natives in the language, and of course, share my discoveries with you all!
I don’t want to sit any tests, spend hours watching TV shows or listening to the radio or reading, and I definitely don’t want to have my head in books studying grammar and vocabulary the entire time. I want to talk with Hungarians and attempt to have a social life almost exclusively through the Hungarian language.
I have no doubts that my usual tricks will come in very useful and that I will be able to communicate in some way quite quickly. However, I should specify exactly what I’m aiming for so there is no confusion! It won’t be fluency this time, but I do want to be able to converse.
Before I hop my flight out of Budapest on October 14th (just in time to fly south for the winter!) I want to be able to meet Hungarian natives I have never met before and have a casual conversation about a wide range of typical things people talk about at social events, with no preparation. I am allowing myself to make mistakes, as long as what I’m saying is totally understandable, and my focus will be on conversations I am involved in.
I’ll also aim to make a video or two in Hungarian before I leave so you can all hear what I sound like!
Trying out this “preparation” thing you all love so much
This target will be similar to the “pretty good” level I reached in Czech. The reason I’m aiming for about the same level (rather than fluency) is because I will actually have slightly over two months of proper immersion rather than three.
Rather than diving straight in, studying on the flight over, and speaking consistently from day one of the mission (which I know from experience works really well), I am going to give myself just over 2 weeks to prepare (while still in Berlin) and study some material (both from books and online). These two weeks may ultimately hurt my potential progress (especially since it won’t be full time – I’m still in recovery mode from the exam!), but now that I’ve had a chance to improve my study technique, I want to see if there is any benefit at all to this “preparation” thing you all seem to be raving so much about!
Two weeks not speaking the target language is already longer than I would usually go for, but it’s worth a try to see if it does indeed help to focus on absorbing as much as possible first.
This easing in period will be further extended, as I’ll spend my first week in Hungary in a town called Pécs just south of Budapest with some Esperanto speakers (at an event filled with fun young party-goers, called IJS). There will be some cultural adjustments to make in Hungary (etc. figuring out how to eat well in a country that doesn’t show much promise for vegetarians) and I’d rather be with friends and have some chances to communicate fully with the many Hungarians at the event (I’ve been told that Hungarians generally don’t speak much English or other languages), before I start full immersion a week into August.
That first week will also give me a chance to get to know some Hungarians who normally live in Budapest so that I can expand my social circle – of course they’ll all be convinced to speak just Hungarian with me after that first week!
Living in Budapest
The reason I choose particular destinations for my language missions, is less due to marking my territory among pompous linguists, and way more due to the actual destination and the people where I travel to. I consider myself much more of a nomad than a language learner and the social rewards of spending time almost exclusively with locals is mostly the reason why I am always so keen to make sure I can converse with them.
Budapest has long been on my list of places to visit, and there’s no way I could give a city with its reputation any less than a few months! I can’t wait to get to know it and discover what experiences await me – especially by discovering it through the people from the city itself. My “road less travelled” is not going to undiscovered villages, but simply being a “3-month tourist” without being a typical English-speaking one.
More than discovering Hungarian verb conjugations, I would like to discover Hungarian culture – and speaking to its locals is the best way to do this. That’s what the mission will ultimately be about!
So join me and see if I can reach a pretty-good conversational level of Hungarian in just three months!
If you have any advice or thoughts about this mission, feel free to share them in the comments below!
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Interesting, thanks for sharing
Can't wait to get truly started on speaking
Talking is always fun
Even for a big challenge like this!
Hungarian is not that hard. Even though it is not an Indo-European language, it has been in the region long enough to adopt some of structures of surrounding languages. Even more so when it comes to vocabulary. Examples: Friday is péntek in Hungarian, which is clearly borrowed from Slavic languages. Strawberry is eper which comes from German Erdbeere (with some fantasy). But also some grammatical structures are similar. You will recognise a system of verb + preposition in Hungarin, similar to German, e.g. leír = to write down, le=down, ír = write. Similar to German (even though for other reasons) the preposition is sometimes placed after the verb: Nem írja le (He did not write it down).
I have never really “learned” Hungarian, just some phrases and basic vocabulary and grammar to get by in Hungary, but I have learned Finnish for several years and my impression is that Finnish is more difficult, especially when it comes to vocabulary. I think you will learn a lot of Hungarian during your mission. In contrast to some other languages I find it rather easy to catch individual words from conversations (no liason between words). There are hardly any dialects and many of the Hungarians I have met were eager to help with the language. So, good luck with your studies. It will be challenging but very satisfying in the end, I think.
Cheers Benny!!
I am so jealous! My mother is Hungarian and I have always wanted to learn Hungarian. It is a really cool language and I don't believe it will be as hard as you think. Most of the so called “cases” are really just prepositional suffixes.
I have dabbled in Hungarian a little bit and found the Pimsleur course really useful to get the sounds of the language down. The FSI course is fantastic and free ( if not a little dry) but it would probably take you until October to complete.
Hungarian food is GREAT. I too, as a vegetarian, find options a bit challenging with hungarian cuisine. You can always nosh on potatoes, dumplings, vegetables and some of the best desserts in the world.
Jó szerencsét!!!
Sok szerencsét!
szerencse=luck
sok=lots of
jó=good
Szerencse is always “good” in hungarian, always positive; we never say “bad luck”, we say having no luck!
Well, there's a special case, miners use to say 'Jó szerencsét' before entering the mine, but it's not the beginner's level
I'm sorry about my English and wish you good luck!
M
Aha so it's sok szerencsét!
not jó szerencsét!
There – I just learned some Hungarian today!!
Benny! Russia is a HUUUUUGE country. Why limit yourself to Moscow which is one of the most expensive cities in the world? I had friends spend several months in Yaroslavl which is a delightful city 200km or so north of Moscow. I could be wrong but I think prices there were a fraction of what they were in Moscow.
I am learning Czech so here is my attempt to say this in Czech!
Bennye!
Rusko je velká země. Proč si limitete do Moskvy, která je jedním z nejdražších měst na světě?
Měl jsem přátele strávit několik měsíců v Jaroslavli, která je nádherné město 200 km nebo tak, na sever od Moskvy. Možná se mýlím, ale myslím, že ceny zde byly zlomkem toho, co oni byli v Moskvě.
This is a very interesting project that you have chosen. To me it is particularly interesting, since I am going to Budapest on exchange for 5 months and want to learn the language. I am a Finn and really interested in learning Hungarian since it sounds and looks cool and of course the very distant language relationship between Finnish and Hungarian makes me more curious to learn the similarities and the differences of our languages. I've been to Budapest once for a week and it is a really beautiful city – I can't wait to get to explore it more thoroughly as well as other parts of Hungary and learn to know the people and aspects of their culture
Maybe I'll see you there! Have fun with your own mission
Oh, like in German then! It would sound weird in German to literally translate “Good luck”. Good to know – thanks for the lesson
Thanks a lot for the tips! That helps a lot
Good to know they'll all be ready to help me, I'm going to try (as always) to speak Hungarian most of my time there!
Hi Benny,
your mission is really interesting!! and Budapest ( i was born there) Pécs are very beautiful!!
Have fun with Hungarian language und culture!;-)
Ágnes
Good choice of language! I have on and off this past year tried to get a grip on the magyar language. Not as difficult as one might first assume, save for the vocabulary. I find that it is a lot easier than people claim, mostly thanks to friendly Hungarians and the fact that the grammar is relatively logical once you get the hang of it.
What DOES bug me is the lack of online material. The few good sources I've found are something you have to pay for or they haven't updated it in years. If you do find any cool pages for the limited number of Hungarian learners, feel free to write about them
I'm looking forward to regular progress reports
Emma
Szívesen
You're welcome
I am another language learning fan … I moved to Hungary for 9 months last year just to learn the language by myself & with help of a nice grammar book.
A magyar nyelv nem könnyû de lehet kicsit meg fogsz tanúlni. // Hungarian language is not easy but probably you'll learn a bit.
Hey, Benny, I'm willing to meet you here in Budapest! I'm really curious about the progress of your mission! Good luck with it! (Jó szerencsét is actually correct, but obsolete, used to be the greeting used by miners.)
Older people usually don't speak English unless the work in business. Older people had to study Russian at school (just as I had to), but they don't speak Russian either (neither do I).
As for Hungarian people not speaking foreign languages… I felt a bit insulted, but actually this is part true part wrong… I think that many people of the younger generations speak very good English, mostly because they're motivated.
As for the language… what I think will be not easy to get used to is postpositions… the long word you put down (megszentség… etc.) has the small root of “szent”, meaning and pronounced saint (how easy!), and all the rest are suffixes and postpositions. As for the origin, as far as I know, Hungarian has the same origin as Finnish but I don't think this means anything, really. We have a whole lot of words coming from Turkish and German tho, which might help a little with your learning.
So good luuuck!!!! I'm sure you'll complete the mission!
I guess you're thru with the study period by now… what's your impression?
agnes szucs from Budapest
p.s. My name, Szűcs, is the epitome of our language, it consists of three letters as “sz” and “cs” (pronounced tsh or ch, like in ouch) are considered as one conosnant each, and u with double accent, tho not exclusive to Hungarian, is present only in one other language in the world (and it is pronounced as ü in German, only longer).
Benny,
Én is magyar tanulást!!!!
Segíteni kell nekem!
If you have any hints specific to Hungarian PLEEEEASE let me know!
Specifically if you find any good Hungarian speaker online links.
Beszélgessünk!!
Szerencsét!
Hi everyone.
First of all I would like to say thanks for everyone who has decided to learn our not-so-easy language, the Hungarian. Anyway, if I can help anyone to learn more about it or the hungarian culture please let me know.
Answering to brianfrommaine: I could not find any hungarian-speaking-online things. But in this site you can download audiobooks in hungarian for free. (plus you can find the e-books too here.)
http://mek.oszk.hu/keresesek/keresesf.phtml?for...
I hope it is helpful for you all:)
Szóval: akinek segíteni kell, szóljon:)
Sok sikert mindenkinek
Hey there! I have stumbled upon your blog actually through one of my students, whom I teach German to. I am very glad you chose my mother tongue, I am very proud of my language, it is really a wonderful, very expressive language! I study English and German linguistics at the university of Debrecen (If you come to this city, hit me up: judit.seres@yahoo.com) and I am against Hungarian having too much in common with Finno-Ugric languages, especially since i started learning Turkish…I do believe HUngarians come from a lot more East then scientists say so, this is why our language is so unique!
The http://mek.oszk.hu/keresesek/keresesf….. site is fantastic!
Thanks!
Good luck with Hungarian! I'm an Aussie who has visited 3 times, and has finally decided to take up the language. Adelaide has the very first adult Hungarian course in Australia ever, I can't believe my luck. I'm self taught apart from the course which I started in January. It is difficult, but I am intrigued by your website and enthusiasm. I've surprised myself, too, but I want to spend the next ten weeks crash coursing the language before I fly to Budapest fro three weeks. I'm using your site for motivation.
I know you can do it. Just be prepared for some confusing grammar twists and turns. All the best, Monikanak hivjak
Benny, Good luck to you; Hungarian is indeed difficult, and it will frankly make you brilliant to become adept in it so quickly
Benny,
I too am trying to learn Hungarian…but I'm giving myself longer than 3 months! As per your advice I started a blog which is documenting my quest to conquer this challenging language.
Anyone, feel free to visit it at:
http://mainlymagyar.wordpress.com/
any words of encouragement or advice will be gladly appreciated!!
Szia, hogy vagy? / Ola, tudo bem? / Hi, how are you?
Sou Brasileiro e vivo na Hungria ja tem 1 ano.
I'm Brazilian and I live in Hungary for one year already.
Eu comecei a trabalhar em Budapeste ha alguns meses atras usando o Espanol e eu gostaria de te encontrar e compartilhar minhas experiencias sobre o aprendizado do hungaro e saber mais sobre as suas experiencias sobre o aprendizado de idiomas(principalmente portugues, quero ver se voce eh mesmo um Carioca! heheheheh)
I started working in Budapest some months ago using Spanish language and I would like to meet you and share my experiences about learning Hungarian and know more about your experiencies in learning languages(mainly portuguese, i wanna see if you are really “Carioca”, heheheheeh)
Szia,
E-mai/MSN: mlt-sp [at] h o t m a i l . c o m
Lucas
I don't speak Hungarian, but I do speak Estonian since I was a Peace Corps volunteer there many years ago. The accent and words in Hungarian are very different form Estonian (Finnish is much more similar), but the grammar is supposed to be very similar. I actually think that the lack of prepositions makes it a lot of fun – you only have to learn cases, no prepositions. You can be really creative with sentence structure.
After Estonian, I thought that learning other languages would be easy. Then I moved to the Czech Republic and got very annoyed by the fact that I had to learn both cases and prepositions.
Good luck. Should be a lot of fun. Budapest is a great city.
I hate that! So much! That’s probably one of the things that annoys me most about Czech. I mean, I know people do it every day without even thinking about it, but it can be so hard to wrap your head around sometimes. I think, like you said you did, I would prefer the Estonian/Finnish/Hungarian style… despite the increased number of cases.
Good luck! After improving English I will learn Hungarian. “to have” in Hungarian is similar to the latin possession dativ. àllat=animal orvos=doctor. én àllatorvos leszek: mi estos bestkuracisto!
Benny, I updated my own Hungarian learning log if you are interested!
http://mainlymagyar.wordpress.com/
Szeretem a magyar nyelvet eddig!
Sok sikert és jó tanulást!